[ SECRET POST #4036 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4036 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 51 secrets from Secret Submission Post #578.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. https://i.imgur.com/DjOHha1.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Relatable. What is your favourite fantasy right now OP?

[(Anonymous)]

I still read YA from time to time, because there is some fun stuff out there, but I'm a lock pickier about it than I used to be.

I'm however really over Harry Potter at this point, but it's still everywhere even when you blacklist it, because characters from all the media ever get sorted in the houses or some such. (It's not like, the bane of my existence or anything, but on some days my dash is kind of flooded with that stuff)

[(Anonymous)]

Really? Because I have difficulty finding fantasy in adult settings. A lot of times the YA or kids stuff seems more unique and willing to go outside the box.

Or maybe I'm just lazy and I'm more willing to give them a shot than the adult ones because they have better covers

Why do they always have better covers

(yes I would take recommendations.)

[feotakahari]

"You don't really see the consequences"? Even Eragon has mounds of slaughtered civilians.

[(Anonymous)]

So many dead children in the Gone series...
So many...

[hamimi_fk]

I was going to make the same point. OP is reading the wrong YA series if they're not finding the consequences of war or really any kind of consequences in their YA books.

Eragon is a good example, so is Gone series. Also, The Maze Runner LITERALLY KILLS OFF KIDS JUST TO SEE WHO CAN HELP PROVIDE A CURE TO A VIRUS THAT'S LITERALLY WIPING OUT THE PLANET. There's a lot of bleak consequences that are visible in The Maze Runner series.

Seriously, OP needs to find the good YA series.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that made me raise an eyebrow because I read a LOT of YA fantasy back in the day and I definitely remember there being pretty grim consequences. Hell, I loved the Redwall books and they definitely didn't shy away from killing characters off rather brutally at times.

[bur]

Man, I have the total opposite problem. I just can't get into "adult fantasy", because it's usually so dang dour and full of rape. Or is far too invested in getting the reader/writer's jollies off.

Also, the only series I've seen that gets into the weeds of the socio-economic consequences of politics and geographical/ecological changes is marketed for 9-12 year olds. It's also the only series I've run into that understands that society and technology can change a fuckton within 50 years with the right pressures.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm with you. But the thing of it is that Harry Potter's admittedly not very edgy. And I fucking love the books. Still, while definitely not light and soft, the whole moral is that love saves everything. The epilogue is a sweet ending. Nothing wrong with that at all, but if you're more into Les Mis-esque endings where half the cast was killed or died of some horrible disease, then the books are going to seem a little... saccharine.

Although I would argue that there are adult books like that too. Not necessarily on the fantasy level, but for instance, a few years ago I read a novel that was supposed to basically be a family saga. I was expecting a really in-depth look at a family and a town through the ages. There was barely any conflict. And when there was conflict, it was solved after half a page. It made Harry Potter look like Game of Thrones meets The Walking Dead. There was one genuinely crushing part, but that was it. And that's fine too, it works for some people, my point is that it was very PG-rated, very Disney levels of angst, and yet it was marketed at adults. Meanwhile, there are some pretty grim books for kids and young adults. Like The Hunger Games.

[rajkumari905]

Ooh, what series for the latter?

[(Anonymous)]

Over Harry Potter, too.

On the YA discussion I have to say that I find both sides kind of weird aka the people who try to claim that only YA has diversity and goes deep into things and think that adult lit is only grimdark male gaze-y stuff AND the fraction who thinks YA is only highschool problems and love triangles. (Tho the former kind is currently a bit more annoying to me, since both my tumblr dash and my Goodreads timeline have more of those people)
I always wonder what kind of books these people have the misfortune of finding, but I read both and there is awesome and awful stuff in both.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm enjoying Fantastic Beasts a lot more than HP partly because it's focused on adults and IS exploring subject matter that HP would have sidestepped or treated less subtly.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that lack of consequences is quite the problem, because HP does at least try to show the consequences.

IMO it's more that YA fiction just generally doesn't display consequences well - the genre doesn't generally have the heft and technique to adequately depict stuff like that. And I've always thought with Harry Potter that the series is strongest in the earliest books, when it's a school story tinged with moral seriousness and heavy shit, and weakest in the later books, where the epic, serious, magical war stuff gets more play. (I mean, I love the whole series personally, but I can get why stuff like this is an issue)

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes, I think a lot of the weaknesses of HP are intrinsic to the conventions of the school story genre - or the weird things that happen when Rowling then tries to push beyond it. You get a sort of cognitive dissonance. (I love the books too).

[(Anonymous)]

Congrats on growing up.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't reread my copies in years, maybe even since book 7 came out, but I feel you OP.

I'm part of the lucky cohort that got to grow up with Harry to the point that POA was the first actual novel I ever read, so it took me a long time to realize that actually the main thing I like about them is the mystery aspects. I somehow didn't read any sherlock holmes or christie novels until high school and when I did I fell in love and simultaneously realized that HP had been scratching that itch for baby-me.

Even as a kid I realized fairly early that the worldbuilding was extremely flimsy; it was more about the plot for me.

[(Anonymous)]

I honestly think you're objectively wrong, and wonder how much YA you've actually read. I find that YA is more daring and dark than ever. It's full of death, war, consequence, even rape. I would say there's a natural hard limit to how explicit it can be, but I'm even hesitant to go that far - YA is well-acclimated with gorey descriptions and such.

The only thing about YA is it usually is way more focused on a teenage protagonist's perspective, so that might create a limit to how description is possible for describing the consequences of violence - just because there usually would have to be a personal connection for the protagonist in
some way (which, to be fair, is likely for a protagonist).

Point being, I just don't think you're correct. I get this is a stereotype, but I don't think it's an evidence-based objection. It's one thing if you tend to find YA writing a little more shallow because it is teenage-focused, and I think it's legitimate to feel less affected by descriptions of war when they are marred with love triangles, etc. But I also don't find adult fiction to inherently be more mature, and I don't think writing grimdark means you're writing realistically.

[(Anonymous)]

I know what you mean, but I still find myself reading YA sometimes because adult fiction tends to be woefully lacking in plot creativity and character-driven storylines

[(Anonymous)]

I read the series and liked it enough but I still don't get how it became such a huge deal. It's not that memorable.

I don't read YA much. Not for the reasons you listed though. I stick to adult and junior fiction. Maybe because high school for me wasn't this monumental time that it seems to be for some people. Also, I do not care for the tropes. The themes of fitting in or being popular do not resonate with me at all.

[(Anonymous)]

At this point in my life, I just have a hard time relating to kids and teens in fiction. I just don't click with them emotionally, even in an "Oh, I remember when I was that age and felt like that..." kind of way. It's the same reason I can't read high school AUs (there's other reasons for that, too, but not wanting to see adult characters I like turned into teens I can't relate to is the main reason).

I still do like some YA fiction and child/teen characters in fiction, though, because I don't necessarily NEED to relate to the child characters to enjoy it. I liked Harry Potter fine, but I never really got into it and have never re-read the books. I'd have probably fallen more in love with HP if I'd been 5-10 years younger (I was 19 when the books started coming out).

[(Anonymous)]

Harry Potter does not have plot holes. I hope you don't get a cold way up there on your high horse.

[ketita]

I think for me part of the growing up aspect of getting over YA is that I suddenly think of the world being dependent on teenagers, and uh, the thought is kind of horrifying. I look at teens today and yeah, they're kinda childish - cute, but generally know a lot less than they think they do.
It's not that I don't appreciate them! That's what teenage-hood is supposed to be. But if life-or-death situations came about, I honestly wouldn't want to leave it to a bunch of kids. Give me some adults with life skills, thanks.

I also find that in general there seems to not be much of teens putting actual hard work into learning stuff. (Maybe that's one of the reasons I liked Fullmetal Alchemist so much - the protagonist there spends hours and hours doing research in the library. I really appreciate his dedication.)

[(Anonymous)]

tastes are allowed to just change, OP

you don't have to prove YA things are ~bad and unrealistic and childish~ to be allowed to stop liking them, you don't have to shit on some really diverse work with really simplistic and inaccurate criticisms to justify yourself

you can just

read other stuff

[(Anonymous)]

To each their own, I guess. I still love them, but a huge part for me is seeing the mentions Rowling gives to little things, just throw away stuff, that ends up being a plot point in one of the later books.

It's a seven book mystery series, imo.