fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4041 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4041 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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03. https://i.imgur.com/MPdttxe.png
[It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia; linked for illustrated? nudity / OP warned for NSFW]

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10. [repeat]

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11. [SPOILER for Stranger Things, season 2]

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12. [WARNING for discussion of sexual assault]

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13. [WARNING for discussion of sexual assault]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #578.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

the Aziz Ansari discourse lasted so fucking long and was so exhausting and has so many fucking angles, and I'm really loath to bring it up again

that said: I think you can think that nothing Ansari did was criminal and that it's questionable whether "sexual assault" is the right term, and also that the coverage of the account was flawed at times, while also thinking that there was something morally faulty about his reported conduct, a massive failure of communication which was his responsibility and that is indicative of a broader, more common problem in the way that we relate to each other along gender lines. And, in fact, that was pretty representative of most of the discussions I saw.

Wait, why was it his responsibility?

i think it was his responsibility that he didn't communicate well enough

Communicate what? To another adult what going back to their place after a date means?

Yes.

Like, is your position that going back to someone's place entails consenting to sex?

Culturally, yes. One night stands? Netflix and chill? Ever heard of those? Want to come up for coffee? This is something that most adult in the Western world know. She'd DEFINITELY know this after getting eaten out by him and not being bothered by it.

I don't think any of those actually should be considered a substitute for communication and consent, even if our culture sometimes treats them that way. I think that's the actual valid point people are trying to make around the story.

Hey now, we never reaches a consensus as to whether "Netflix and chill" means "have sex" or literally watch movies and chill out.

Besides, everyone knows the proper euphemism is "Would you like to come up and see my etchings?"

Granted most of my fucking happened in a previous sexual revolution (the 1990s), but going to someone's room usually meant private conversation, a drink, and optional consensual making out and noodling around, not a jump to fucking.

I'm tempted to snark about straight people being bad in bed, but I do know that the fine art of making out and hanging out hasn't been completely lost.

(Not that I'd date straight people again.)

I didn't know "come in for coffee" wasn't supposed to mean literally having coffee until I was well into adulthood.

Same. During my late teens, someone said they had a "coffee buddy", on my blank look, they expanded, "y'know, as in 'do you want to come in for a coffee?'" and for several minutes I was under the impression that the two of them were just really into coffee - it was just as Starbucks started to pop up in my town and coffee was becoming more than a spoonful of instant and hot water.

I twigged an embarrassing amount of minutes later.

Do you think he's somehow more responsible for poor communication than the woman was? I'd say they were both responsible for the lack of good communication.

Sure, yes, to an extent, everyone should be a good communicator all the time always. But at the same time, I think there's a difference between the actions taken by different people, and the requirement to communicate around those different actions.

Can't agree. I see no reason to hold the woman to lower standards. It seems condescending, tbh,as if you're implying she's somehow less capable than Ansari is of expressing herself. I see no evidence of that.

I didn't and don't think that.

Then why the double standard?

I think that a person making an active choice to do something has a higher burden to communicate.

Disagree. And I don't think the decision to consent to sex is nearly as passive as you make it out to be here.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2018-01-27 03:16 (UTC) - Expand

I agree. BOTH have to communicate. As for non-verbal cues - verbalize them.

I agree that both people have to communicate.

I think that the person who is doing something has more of a responsibility to communicate.

Fucking THIS. If someone isn't picking up on your nonverbal cues that you don't want to do something, it's time to open your mouth and say "I don't want to do this."

What is "conditioning women to be non-confrontational, conditioning men to keep pushing and boys will be boys, she wanted it anyway, victim blaming?" We may never know. But yeah sure, bitch should have screamed no. It's that easy!

You're right. Expecting a horny man to read your mind is a much better plan than using your words to say "No".

At the same time, though, I think a lot of people would ask why we should take it as normal and expected that someone in Ansari's position didn't try to affirmatively establish consent, or whether that's something that we should challenge and criticize.

(Anonymous) - 2018-01-27 08:54 (UTC) - Expand

SA

(Anonymous) - 2018-01-27 18:39 (UTC) - Expand