fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4109 ]

[ SECRET POST #4109 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4109 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 14 secrets from Secret Submission Post #588.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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03. https://i.imgur.com/i3SbcXS.png

Probably because they are in no way comparable? Hulk is a child that has been raised on violence. He doesn't know any better.

The Hulk is a monster with the intelligence of a three year old. It’s not like Banner was complicit.

And there was nothing at all to indicate Valkyrie was forced into slaving. Stop making excuses for her.

the whole objection to Valkyrie has always felt to me like approximately 85% of it is some sort of weird Take That directed at perceived SJWs

well, see ya later

No it’s because she’s a fucking slaver.

I agree! You thought you might like a black female character with a tiny bit of complexity, well TOO BAD! She's impure forever!

Never mind that she's not from our culture at all, so her colour has absolutely no bearing on her profession, nor any of the negative connotations, in context.

A comfortable slave is still a slave, dumbass. Watch Spartacus.

It's just a life of relatively luxurious slavery. He's not free to leave. And as was said, Hulk has more the mind of a child.

movie-verse!Hulk doesn't seem like a child to me personally, so I disagree with the other commenters. Especially in Ragnarok, he seemed like a normal, average intellence person, albeit a giant green one.

And I did read Valkyrie as forced and enslaved. But I can see the other interpretation. And if you don't see her as forced, then yes, she's awful and the movie ignores it. So I get why a lot of people here hate her. I just don't agree.

He talks and acts like at best, a four year old. He literally throws tantrums.

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philstar22 - 2018-04-05 01:20 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2018-04-05 08:48 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2018-04-05 18:05 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2018-04-06 12:44 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2018-04-05 01:23 (UTC) - Expand

I mean if HE'S a prisoner and has no choice, why do we assume Valkyrie is making those choices out of HER free will?

Aside from the fact that the Hulk isn't like a person who's grown up and developed, but is more of a spitting rage monster that evolves, I think it is obvious in the narrative that he is a prisoner, albeit one who is happy with his lot.

So what narrative reason do you have to presume that Valkyrie is NOT making those choices of her own free will? We can always fanwank an explanation, but within the film itself, I see no evidence that she's not making choices of her own free will, and she herself never gives any indication otherwise.

I don't have a horse in this race; just curious about your logic.

For me, it appears like everyone who isn't the Grandmaster is forced. He seems to be the top dog/slaver, and I don't think anyone can leave. I get the feeling that it was a choice for Valkyrie between death and helping the Grandmaster. At this point she's so numb that she can tell herself she enjoys it. But the way she acts towards the Grandmaster and the Grandmaster towards her, choice doesn't seem to be there for me.

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soldatsasha - 2018-04-05 01:19 (UTC) - Expand

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philstar22 - 2018-04-05 01:23 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2018-04-05 01:26 (UTC) - Expand

Personally it comes down to two main reasons for me.

1. Hulk seems to be at best barely intelligent and barely aware of what is even going on around him at any given time. We can easily assume that the jacuzzi and penthouse are just another whim of the Grandmaster and have literally nothing to do with the Hulk's wants and desires. Being mad that the Hulk is content with smashing things and living in luxury is like being mad at a police dog. The dog (and the Hulk) don't have the intelligence or awareness to know any better.

2. There is literally nothing in the film to suggest that Valkyrie isn't anything but another random slaver working on Sakaar. There is nothing to suggest she's being coerced or forced to enslave people. There's no dialog, scenery clues, nothing. Meanwhile it's pretty well spelled out that she's a fairly successful slaver who works to feed her alcoholism and doesn't give a single fuck about the people she's selling into certain death.

Okay, I have a question. Can you explain to me what, other than language or lack thereof, makes you think that Hulk is barely intelligent? I can see below level intelligence. But especially in Ragnarok he seemed to have a normal brain to me. That whole scene in his apartment. He was having normal human reactions with Thor. It is just his language level to me that seems low. His mind seems human.

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soldatsasha - 2018-04-05 01:28 (UTC) - Expand

On the one hand, I had the impression that Valkyrie couldn't leave Sakaar for some reason and her options for staying on the Grandmaster's good side and living comfortably were limited.

On the other hand, A) she would still be choosing to live comfortably over choosing to not enslave people, and B) there are clearly plenty of people on Sakaar who are neither starving like the scavengers in the garbage, nor are within the Grandmaster's sphere so as to be in constant danger of getting melted.

Maybe she blundered down a path she didn't mean to follow and got stuck.

I feel like, though, if the Grandmaster wanted any of those particular other people for a particular job, their option would be death/starvation or obedience. And Valkyrie is clearly skilled. So I do think he would have forced her or otherwise killed her/tortured her/starved her until she agreed.

Must we restart this argument every few days?

Who cares if other people restart the argument? Nobody's forced to read it.

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(Anonymous) - 2018-04-05 05:55 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2018-04-05 18:03 (UTC) - Expand

Possibly because The Hulk is an established character and the audience assumes that a hero from the previous films wouldn't be there by choice, whereas Valkyrie is a new character whose allegiances are uncertain?

It's not quite comparable, Hulk is more of a rage-monster kept on a leash by a madman, yes he enjoys the attention and luxury but he really only has basic emotions and no real empathy for others. He just likes smashing things and the Grandmaster lets him smash things.

Valkyrie at least does have the capacity for that, but we also know nothing about how she ended up on Sakaar. Did she fall there like Thor and was picked up by slavers and sold to the Grandmaster? Did she travel to Sakaar herself and start the life of a slaver out of free-will?

We don't know and I don't think we'll ever know tbh, and the movie certainly didn't care about the audience knowing. But this movie for me was very much a case of 'enjoy it but don't poke to deep at all'.

Oddly enough, I see virtually NO criticism of Valkyrie, and wish for more

Huh. I've seen plenty on FS. Like this fairly recent thread:

https://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/1783627.html?thread=989506891#cmt989506891

Double standard fully in place.

When a man does it, he's badass.
When a woman does it, she's a crazy amoral bitch.

That itself is a double standard to bring gender into it when it isn't relevant. I think a slave trader is a more hateable figure than what's essentially a multiple personality parasite, simply due to how one is real and the other isn't.

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