fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #562 ]

[ SECRET POST #562 ]

⌈ Secret Post #562 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 446 secrets from Secret Submission Post #081.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ], [ 1 - empty comment ], [ 1 - Walken ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

132. I'm calling troll, but in case not (because some people really are that stupid and inconsiderate): I hope you enjoy knowing you could very well, and most likely have, trigger rape victims. That's not ~edgy~, that's ignorant and asshole-ish. Keep it classy.

Edited 2008-07-20 22:20 (UTC)

LOL, YOUR ICON!! XD

I thought it was appropriate.

everyone who writes rape fic is a sick fuck anyway

No. I'm not really fond of it, but there are stories where it's legitimately, not as a lame plot point, and the issues are thoroughly explored.

My, I can think of a number of published novels out there that, by your standards, should be warning for rape. Aren't the publishers cruel for not labeling the back jacket with a big red 'NON-CON'.

Straw-man argument. Fanfiction behavior & mindset =/= published fiction behavior & mindset. Offering fanfiction for the pleasure of having written it and the joy of sharing it with others is different in its very nature, because of the direct connection it offers with the readers. Instant feedback and the lack of any other compensation makes it much more of a dialogue and less of what some might call an art form, when it comes to plot devices and summaries.

Just because you're getting direct feedback doesn't mean you're obligated to give your readers any more than published authors do.

I mean, if you *want* to write warnings, then fine, it's your prerogative - but expecting other writers to do it is something I don't follow.

I agree here, too, actually. My beef is with the people who gleefully refuse to use warnings out of some sense of 'they should know better' or the idea that anyone with trigger issues is a wuss who shouldn't be on the internet. I firmly disagree with the idea of telling/ordering someone to use warnings. At that point it's time to step back and say 'okay, well, it's just not worth it to me to read your fic.'

I'm aware that the above opinion rides the line of hypocrisy, but it's fandom!secrets, where we can object to something without necessarily taking it on as a personal cause (all evidence of my comments about this scattered throughout the thread notwithstanding).

Though, one last thing I would like to add--since there's no way to tell the people who disapprove of having to warn for stuff from the people who do and just aren't posting a story that needs warnings, I do kind of wish the former group were easier to recognize. I know some of the people on my flist have a comment in their profiles about the level of squick possible in the stories found on that journal--but there again, I hate the idea of actively telling people 'you have to do this.'

Which just leads me to the very situation that got me thinking about this--I read an SGA deathfic without a deathfic warning and it was a fabulous story but oh god it kind of still haunts me. I wouldn't have read it had I known. It's a bittersweet thing, because really, it was a *good* story, and I hate to miss out. Ahh, conundrum.

I kinda see what you're getting at there. I'm not really on board with the way the OP worded the secret, either (the implication that people with issues are just pussies), though I agree with the sentiment.

One final thing, though - I hate, hate, HATE deathfic warnings. I don't want to know that a character is going to die! Shock me, please. It's practically a spoiler. :/

Re: 132

darsynia.livejournal.com - 2008-07-21 04:36 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 132

(Anonymous) - 2008-07-23 01:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 132

darsynia.livejournal.com - 2008-07-23 02:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 132

(Anonymous) - 2008-07-23 04:07 (UTC) - Expand

Thing is, most fiction is well enough reviewed- on Kirkus, for instance, let alone Amazon- that it's pretty easy to find out about triggering stuff. People who are really sensitive to a bunch of triggers can talk to the bookstore clerks, or sign on to internet support communities. Fic warnings replace the much larger amount of information available about books.

Not that it matters, however: warnings, raitings, pairing information, and ownership disclaimers are the fic writing norm, and ignoring them is mere adolescent rebellion. I don't read fic that doesn't have headers, and fic I don't read I don't rec.

There's truth to that. I just have to wonder how many people bother researching every novel they pick up before buying it - and besides, reviews aren't something the author has done and are (for the most part) outside of the author's sphere of influence - it's not the author's act or responsibility - and the accuracy is left to the reviewer, not to the author's intent.

I warn like any other fic writer because it's the norm - but that doesn't mean I agree with the standard.

Seconding what the two above me said.

For one, most mainstream books, movies, and televisions shows aren't going to be as graphic as fanfiction can be. If you pick up a random book in a Barnes & Noble, chances are it's not going to have a gruesome rape scene. I know there are novels out there that may contain explicit rape, but I've never looked at one and wouldn't know one way or another if there is any hint of a warning for non-con. Secondly, moving out of the book realm, some television shows do warn for graphic violence, rape, or other potentially triggering content. And even if they don't warn for that specifically, you might be able to surmise something by "extremely violent content," etc.

And lastly, and most importantly: even if no one in the mainstream entertainment media never warned for rape, that is irrelevant. Ficcers have a choice to warn for triggering content. You can add a small warning that takes an extra few seconds, or you can refuse to do so and instead accept the fact that you are placing the burden on any victim and leaving triggering content out in the open. It's up to author, but then they shouldn't get butthurt when someone calls them on it.

For one, most mainstream books, movies, and televisions shows aren't going to be as graphic as fanfiction can be

I'm going to have to disagree, especially when it comes to film. Having something visually presented to you like in film can reach levels that words never can, IMHO. The most disturbing scenes that I can bring to mind are all from films - mainstream or not, I'm not sure what qualifies here, because the visual (and audio!) element is so important.

It depends highly on what sort of books you're reading, and I'd hesitate to make that statement. With TV, of course (unless you're on HBO), everything is censored. But there's a difference between a film/TV rating that says 'extremely violent content' and a fic warning that says "dismemberment, deathfic, tort, sadism, blah blah blah."

Why is it irrelevant? Why does mainstream media get a free card, while as ficwriters, convention presses us into writing warnings?

It is irrelevant as to the choice fic writers make. Nowhere did I say that mainstream entertainment gets a free pass (in fact, they get some criticism of their own that fic rarely gets). I've actually seen TV shows (granted, I watch mostly news and similar shows) that have specific warnings such as "This segment contains graphic depictions/discussion of rape. Viewer discretion advised." While that's not my number one cause, if possible, I do think it's a good idea for them to do that. I don't see why it's such a big deal for fic writers to do something similar and warn for triggering content, and saying "But so-and-so doesn't have to do it!" is a poor excuse.

To be clear, I don't think someone should have to warn/label for every single little thing if they don't want, but I do think it's common decency to warn for something that might trigger someone. And since I've heard some people say "but it would ruin the surprise!" (personally, I think if the surprise of rape/graphic torture is more important that not triggering people that's really stupid, but whatever), there are ways to still warn without spoiling everyone else -- you can put the warnings in white text, put it on a different page, or put it at the end of the story with a spoiler space before it, so only people who want to read the warnings have to read them.

If you don't warn, then people are going to be forced to skip anything without a warning; if you do warn like the previous three examples, most people remain unspoiled, but those with triggers still might get to read your story, and you might get feedback. It's a win-win and I don't see what's so hard about it.

Edited 2008-07-21 04:55 (UTC)

Are you serious?

What published fiction have you been reading? YA?

Stuff without rampant rape?

What fiction have you been reading?

This will sound hilariously srspost, but: George R.R. Martin.

Re: 132

likespring.livejournal.com - 2008-07-21 04:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 132 (Same anon!)

(Anonymous) - 2008-07-21 04:44 (UTC) - Expand

But you can typically tell from a fic's rating and its genre whether or not there might be something potentially squicky in it. Something rated R or NC-17 under a "horror" or "tragedy" category is probably going to have some pretty dark stuff. Now, you might not know exactly what said dark stuff is, but you should still be able to get an idea that things are not going to be all fluffy bunnies.

I tend to assume that if something is rated R or NC-17, there's either going to be explicit sex or graphic violence or rape. The summary usually gives a pretty good indication of which of the two it's going to be.

It really depends.

I recall one Harry Potter fic, for example -- I can't recall if it had any warnings and if so which ones, but it was rated NC-17 and the summary was something along the lines of it being an alternate universe in which Voldemort won and Harry Potter because the slave/toy of the Death Eaters. For that story, I certainly assumed there would be torture, rape, and other dark themes.

However, not all summaries are so upfront. And unless you're on a site like Fanfiction.Net, FictionAlley, etc., with categories, a fic may not be classified as such. A lot of people who archive on LiveJournal or their own websites don't categorize their stories under a certain genre.

I've read numerous stories in which the summary makes the story sound like a typical, fluffy or at least happy get-together story. And then bam, in the middle you get a rape scene. (Same for stories with things like child abuse.) Sometimes it's because for some reason the author doesn't think it's rape (which is a larger problem; I had to leave one fandom because practically every fic, no matter how "fluffy" the summary claimed to be, somehow mentioned rape [and it had nothing to do with canon, backstory, etc]) or because the author just plain refuses to provide an accurate warning or even summary, many times even after being politely asked by a number of people to do so.