[ SECRET POST #4375 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4375 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.
(Madam Secretary)


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03.
[Doctor Who S11E06, "Demons of the Punjab"]


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04.
[Dark on Netflix]


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05.
(Madam Secretary)


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06.


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08.


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09.







Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 10 secrets from Secret Submission Post #626.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/RPaS7bF.png
[Doctor Who S11E06, "Demons of the Punjab"]

[(Anonymous)]

This is actually my favorite episode from season eleven. Even though it was a heart-breaker that made me cry, I thoroughly enjoyed it and it made me want to watch more of the season. I feel like Doctor Who has had a lot of episodes that were designed to break viewers' hearts though.

[philstar22]

Mine too. It was a heartbreaker in a good way. I like episodes that move me, and this one moved me.

[sabotabby]

This was by far my favourite episode of the season. It also had the most nuance and complexity and the best writing; I felt there was a lot of emotional manipulation this season (and in DW in general!), but "Demons of the Punjab" actually earned the tears it got from me.

[philstar22]

Okay, how long have you been watching Doctor Who for? There are so many heartbreaking episodes, so many designed specifically to break our hearts.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I just started with the new Doctor because I was curious about the series. And thanks for the heads up but like I said, I've stopped watching.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Phil isn't giving you a heads up. She's being slightly judgy about why you decided to stop watching a show you weren't enjoying because she thinks your reasons are flawed.

Re: OP

[philstar22]

Honestly didn't realize the OP had only started watching this season. A lot of season 11 haters are long time fans just looking for reasons to hate this season. OP never said anything about only just starting the show.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

OP didn't say anything hateful, either. It's rather uncharitable of you to assume OP was making their decision in bad faith. I'm not sure what in the secret warrants that.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. Some people have hard stops when it comes to shows. Maybe a favourite character dies. Maybe it has one too many 'kill the puppies' moments. It's cool to nope out of a show that you no longer enjoy watching, and as a fan of the show, nothing in the secret seemed negative about the show, just that this wasn't the kind of thing that OP wanted to watch.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. OP was actually complimentary about the show, it's clear that it's just not their thing. And that's fine. I dislike it when fans of a show get defensive about someone who decides to stop watching for personal reasons and try to question them about it, as though that person needs to justify their decision to the rest of fandom.

Re: OP

[philstar22]

I didn't say they made it in bad faith? Just that Doctor Who has always had this sort of episodes, and it would be strange for it to be a stopping point now for someone who had been watching the show. I get it now that I know they are a new viewer (although, Rosa kind of hits those buttons too).

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Why bring "season 11 haters" and "long time fans just looking for reasons to hate" in this context, then? You clearly think that the whole fan-turned-hater thing might apply to OP, even though OP's given no indication that they were a long time fan.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Weird that you didn't stop watching after the very first episode, where Grace dies unnecessarily to set up plenty of heartbreak through the entire season, but this was just too much for you.

[(Anonymous)]

I never understand the "calculated" part of this.

It makes you feel sad and you don't want to feel sad. That's totally legit, that's a great reason not to watch it. But trying to make you feel emotions is one of the fundamental purposes of media. Of course it's calculated.

[(Anonymous)]

The secret says "I don't care that this is one of the goals of media", probably because OP wanted to head off comments like this one.

[(Anonymous)]

that doesn't make it un-weird for them to have used the word "calculated", if anything it makes it weirder

[(Anonymous)]

The word accurately describes what media is designed to do. You said "Of course it's calculated" so you clearly agree this is an accurate use of the word that applies to this situation. But you still think it's weird for OP to use the term. Okaaaaaaay...

[(Anonymous)]

Nayrt

But would feeling pain and loss be okay if it hadn't been calculated? Would OP want to keep watching a show that unintentionally made them feel sad a lot? If not, then what difference does it make if it's calculated? If yes, then why?

[(Anonymous)]

Personally if I can clearly see the framework and can predict every beat of the story then all the emotional impact is lost. It feels like the writers are pointing and saying 'Look, over here. This is important. Don't you feel sad?' rather than letting me decide how I want to feel and when.

[(Anonymous)]

I think I get where the OP is coming from. Sometimes I feel like a story lacks subtlety and is too transparent in its efforts to push my emotional buttons. Usually, when I get that feeling, I just get annoyed, like, "Fuck off with the GIANT HAMMER OF SAD you keep hitting me with, and learn some nuance and narrative deftness, jeez."

Like, for me there is a difference between being emotionally guided and being emotionally manipulated. When I feel I'm being emotionally manipulated that bugs me. But obviously not everyone feels this distinction, and I'm not saying everyone should.

[(Anonymous)]

Like, for me there is a difference between being emotionally guided and being emotionally manipulated. When I feel I'm being emotionally manipulated that bugs me. But obviously not everyone feels this distinction, and I'm not saying everyone should.

This exactly. If I can feel the story or the writers are trying to force me in a certain direction then part of me completely switches off and I'm left feeling annoyed/frustrated by the manipulation. Show me a story but don't tell me what to feel or when.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, exactly! I haven't seen this episode so I have no idea how it goes. But it annoys me so much when people try to dismiss a critique that a piece of media is heavy handed with the emotional manipulation by saying "Ohhhh but that's what all media does! Manipulate your emotions!"

Yeah, and some pieces of media are shit at it for many reasons. There's emotion that feels organic and natural because it evolves from excellent writing and acting backed by an impeccably chosen soundtrack and then there's the GIANT HAMMER OF SAD. (I love that phrase, BTW!)

But people like to pretend as though it's all the same thing. I honestly can't tell if they're trolling, or just really bad at critical thinking and picking up on nuances themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

It sounds then like the issue is the quality of writing, acting, and production and not whether or not there is an intention to make you feel things. It's still emotional manipulation even if it's done well and doesn't seem cliched or predictable. Blame bad writing/acting and not the intentionality.

[(Anonymous)]

I get it OP, I'm still watching, but it seems like this season is slightly heavier handed than usual on the morality tales? I'm ready for a good just action/run/solve stuff episode!