fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4472 ]

[ SECRET POST #4472 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4472 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Do you work? Would you work if you had it? What kind of job would you do?

Not anon, but yes I would work so I have extra income to take vacations.

Really? So the only incentive to contribute to society would be a little extra vacation cash?

How much would UBI cover? All living expenses? A bed in dorm-style housing? A house? Car? Leisure and fun stuff - movies, video games?

Either you think that everyone in society nerds to be subject to the immediate threat of starvation and homelessness to motivate them to work, or this is just an argument over where you draw the line of how much economic security is "enough".

And there are already significant swathes of society who do not ever have to face the threat of economic insecurity - this is a thing that our economic system already features. If this is your argument against UBI, how are you OK with a system that allows millionaires and billionaires to exist?

Well, yeah. I can't say I'm inherently against the institution of working for money. I support extra financial support to those living below poverty lines, I support healthy benefits for all, and I support 70% taxes on those making over $10 mil/year.

But I am fine with the idea that you need to work to get money, provided there are jobs available for all (and jobs that people can do, given their skillsets/physical abilities).

Re: Universal Basic Income

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 01:27 (UTC) - Expand

NAYRT

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 02:26 (UTC) - Expand

Re: NAYRT

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 02:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: NAYRT

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 07:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: NAYRT

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 23:50 (UTC) - Expand

NAYRT, but:

I feel like the government has a responsibility to make sure its people can survive. So enough to cover food, an apartment, healthcare, necessities for survival. No one should ever be in a position where missing work puts you at risk of starving or homelessness. That said, luxuries and leisure? Get a job, you bum.

I agree the govn't is responsible for taking care of its citizens and under no circumstances should anyone be homeless or starve to death because they can't afford food.

I just disagree with the notion of automatically getting enough money without in some way contributing back to society at a roughly full-time level*. Contract with government goes two ways: we give to them, they give to us.

*Until, I suppose, every single job ever is automated by robots in some sci-fi future. Then by all means, we all should reap the financial benefits.

Re: Universal Basic Income

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 01:11 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Universal Basic Income

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 01:20 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Universal Basic Income

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 04:45 (UTC) - Expand

I have not worked a job that I felt made a genuine meaningful contribution to society ever

Most people haven't tbh

Hard disagree. Society as you know it - convenience stores, entertainment, the products you use every day - all of that relies on those people. You don't have to be working the soup kitchen at a homeless shelter to make a positive impact on society.

How much waste does all that convience produce? Is it really a benefit to society?

Except that you're so easily replaced you're basically a cog in the machine. That's not meaningful. That's just you happening to be there at that time while people look down at you.

Re: Universal Basic Income

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 05:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Universal Basic Income

(Anonymous) - 2019-04-05 05:25 (UTC) - Expand

My job DOES do something good for society and I kinda feel good about it, but the pay is shit on ass toast.

Define "meaningful to society"?

I need someone to work fast food if I want to eat fast food. I need convenience store workers to run shop so I can get gas and other necessities. I need someone to pick up garbage, and I'd like someone to manage payroll and run marketing campaigns at the companies I like to buy electronics from.

Unless you've only worked as a loan shark or something, someone probably has benefited from your work.

+ one bajillion

True.

No, I'm focusing on school, and no. I would, however, focus on reforestation efforts and creating green spaces with native plants to help mitigate the ongoing environmental crisis.

So you wouldn't work, but you'd "focus on reforestation efforts" in your free time? How many hours a week would you volunteer? Locking yourself into a schedule with an organization that oversees these projects? Or are you thinking you'd just plant a tree or two every once in awhile?

Alternatively, why not get a job in the environmental sector? They really need people.

I'd work on being a professional film critic myself.

NAYRT—I work, but only half time. I would be full time if I could, and have applied to be full time, and also for other half/part time jobs, but have had no luck so far. I would absolutely keep my job if UBI became a real thing, but there were times in my life (and in most people’s) where the ability to take big chunks of time off work without worrying about being homeless and starving would’ve saved my sanity. Caring for my mom/paying for help with her care when she was dying of cancer, while also working and being a full time student, had me contemplating suicide more than once.

And in addition to students and people caring for sick relatives, UBI would help so many others: new parents, disabled people who don’t get the help they need because they can’t afford it, elderly people who can’t afford to retire, and even people whose jobs will be/are being lost to automation.

Do you work? Yes.

Would you work if you had it? No, but I'd volunteer.

What kind of job would you do? Probably something with helping shelter animals.

I mean, so would everyone. If I didn't have to work, I'd also socialize homeless kittens all day, along with 60% of the population.

Pretty sure no one would volunteer for sewage duty.

AYRT

I see the point you're attempting to make, but you're not really making it.

For example, things like sewage duty would continue to be a paid job, considering it's hazardous work.

Money is currently a motivator for people to work, obviously. But UBI of the type that Yang is proposing - aka $12,000/year - doesn't mean that money ceases to be a motivator. Money buys security, convenience, influence, and status. People aren't going to stop wanting those things any time soon.

I wouldn't stop working if I had to live on $12,000/year. I would stop working if I got $12,000/year on top of what I've already accumulated to live on. Then, I'd still continue to volunteer because having something to do is a way to stay mentally active, stay socially connected, and ideally helpful to myself and to society.

SA

And the kind of helping shelter animals I was talking about wasn't necessarily playing with kitties, it would also involve cleaning a lot of poop, bathing dirty animals, cleaning out facilities, etc... so in a sense, yeah, I guess I was volunteering for sewage duty.

NAYRT—I wouldn’t volunteer for sewage duty (which means what exactly? Working at a wastewater treatment plant? Replacing pipes? Cleaning septic tanks?) because I’d be bad at it, but I have cleaned explosive diarrhea off bathroom walls in my current job, even though I didn’t have to, so that the public would have access to a bathroom. So in that sense, I’ve already volunteered for sewage duty many times.

Also, studies of UBI indicate that most people don’t quit their jobs when given extra money, and the ones that do most often are students and new mothers/parents.

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