fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4516 ]

[ SECRET POST #4516 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4516 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[The Secret Etiquette Of Lady Takashima]

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03.

[Avatar: The Last Airbender]

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04.

[Harry Potter]

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05.

[Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice]

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06.

[Stephen Fry as Inspector Thompson in Gosford Park]

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07.

[Dragon Age/Dragon Age: Origins/DA4]

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08.

[Queer Eye, S03 E01 "From Hunter to Huntee"]

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09.

[A View to a Kill]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 58 secrets from Secret Submission Post #647.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I get this. I'm more confused by people who seem to not get this.

It's the same reason you (in theory) don't allow doping and steroids in competitive sports. Because that cheapens it for everyone involved. Of course the roided guys are going to beat the other guys or have it much much easier. So then the title means far less than it did.

"B-But the only way I can do this activity is if you allow all that stuff." Then maybe find another sport? Start performance drug league? Make your own games that allow whatever, and stop demanding the championships that existed, cheapen the meaning of their titles? Or content yourself with watching other people play?

Not all of us get to be super Olympians and that's OKAY. That's WHY being an Olympian - meaning qualifying at all to compete - is such a huge deal. BECAUSE not everyone can be one. If they just let anybody ever compete and call themselves technically an Olympian that means nothing then.

my dude this is a videogame

playing a story mode game by yourself on easy inherently does not affect anyone else at all. thats the entire point of solo story mode games.

it's not comparable

jesus you just compared playing a souls game to training to be an olympic

and that's coming from someone who really likes souls games

That's why it was a metaphor and not me going "it's totally exactly like this bro!!!!!z"

It's the principle of the thing. The integrity of the brand. The point that what gives titles and achievements meaning is literally that not everybody can get them.

You missed that whole point, I guess.

there is nothing prestigious about beating a soulsborne game nor does it have integrity. I have the reflexes of a dead cat and I’m about to complete bloodborne because i spammed spin2win and dumped so many point in VIT I just tank hits till the thing I’m wailing on dies or I do first. That’s hardly the pinnacle of achievement.

Yeah, and there are ways to cheese other titles and achievements too. That doesn't mean there should be an official easy mode that is marked out and officially supported by the original system.

And I'm someone that doesn't even like those games, because I have no interest in grinding away at them. But even I can understand what the devs were going for. All the clamoring to make them do the opposite of what they're trying to do is extremely entitled.

They just don't wanna write your ship, man. Leave it be and find another author who will. Everyone will be happier for it, I promise.

Then you admit achievements are meaningless if I a dead cat can get the same achievement someone else with actual skill can get because I decide to exploit a loophole. I say this as someone who likes tlFromSoft. The only thing that stops people from beating the games is time and the amount of effort they want to put forth. Not skill.

I mean ... you said it yourself. "Exploit a loophole." What people are demanding with an easy mode is a way to do that without feeling like they're cheating or exploiting loopholes. Officially sanctioned cheese.

I don't know if you missed it the first time, but like I said, an official easy mode that is marked out and officially supported by the original system is something different from cheese strats existing. If the devs added an easy mode, that would be implicitly saying "we approve of this" and they don't seem to want to. And that's okay.

Time and effort aren't nothing, either. I'll never beat those games because I'll never have the patience. That's okay too.

Easy mode doe not compromise the integrity of the work either way. Because you know what usually the default difficulty setting is? Normal. When games start having a default difficulty of easy and ONLY easy or hard options then you can complain. Games having an easy mode does not compromise the default game. And if you are that worried about achievements there’s a reason why there are difficulty locked trophies and achievements. Having easy mode does not take away from that. Just like how I exploiting buggy AI/grinding for infinity doesn’t measure how easy or hard the game actually is.

Totally an aside, but

Oh man, imagine the wank if the next game came out, and there's a mode called Easy. And it's the only mode available and exactly the same level of difficulty as the previous games. Technically, they did what everyone wanted!

It'd make EVERYONE so mad. I'd lol.

I personally want them to add in an easy mode that is harder then the regular mode, just to be a jerk really.

You still had to work for it. You still overcame your weaknesses (Reflexes) just as I overcame mine (Full blown dispraxia) You still had the same bosses, doing the same damage with the same attacks, you did it your way, I did it mine, but we fought the same enemies who were doing the same thing.

Nice to know being born disabled is a weakness, bucko. Fuck off.

I believe your sincerity here even less than I did in the above comment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tso8u4OJLuI

it's inherently a bad metaphor, sorry.

the reason you're not allowed to dope or do steroids in competetive games so it doesn't give you a unfair advantage over other players. If your just playing by yourself, no one cares (other then like health reasons)

your comparing the prestige of playing a hard single player game versus someone else playing the same game but in a different but ultimately in a way that doesn't effect you.

it's like getting made someone is using the elevator when your using the stairs. even if they're like in a wheelchair. they're still reducing the prestige of the stairs, brah

Huh? It's not getting mad someone is taking the elevator when I'm using the stairs. How is that any better of a metaphor?

We're discussing people demanding easy modes be put into games where the creators of the games don't want them, not people getting mad that people play easy mode in other games. The Olympics thing was a better example of this, in that the IOC showrunners are the ones who get to decide what to allow into the games they control the structure of. The analogy was not about competition, it was about people who want to change systems that the current creators and participants find meaning in.

If someone wants to put on rocket boots and brag they beat Usain Bolt's time in the 100 meter, they can do that. But that won't be officially recognized or sanctioned by the IOC because that's pretty obviously cheating. Likewise, you can cheat in games easily. Or cheese them in obviously unintended ways. You go for that on your own and it doesn't ruin anyone else's experience. But demanding that the devs in this case acknowledge you or create an official rocket boots league is super entitled.

Just gonna say, you act like these creators exist in a vacuum. Disabled players aren't on their radar. This isn't some elite game if you can cheese it with exploits and people only care.

Fuck off with your ableist garbage, some of us want to play video games where easy mode is normalized as a whole because of accessibility reasons. But apparently, we're assholes for going, "Hey, this isn't actually accessible because you didn't stop to think about us at all, just your elitist, gatekeeping garbage."

See, I don't get this.

Some people can't beat Easy mode either, and it doesn't seem like you've thought about them. If experiencing the non-challenging content is the aim, why not ask for Cinematic mode instead of Easy mode? That's the easiest possible bar and everyone gets the story and playthrough without having to do anything. Therefore its truly, fully accessible to everyone.

Where do you set the bar for removing potential challenges, without being ableist? The only place you can put it at is zero.

Which I'm for, personally. Cinematic or Story modes in games would be cool with me. People get those anyway from Lets Plays and streamers. But where does Easy fall in this? If accessibility is your concern, what about the people who can't beat Easy?

If the game is played for the challenge and the prestige of beating a difficult game, and the game is then made that you an play it without the difficulty, they yes that does affect the experience.

Now if you're talking about how you using cheat codes doesn't affect my experience, then that's fair. I wonder what YOU feel you got out of the game but that's your problem.

But you demand that the game be made in such a way that people changes the options available to the difficulty, that DOES affect my experience of the game.

Again, see above, about how "I beat dark souls" is a fundamentally different experience to "I beat DMC"

No it doesn’t. “I beat Devil May Cry” might be considered more impressive than beating soulsborne because we don’t know what difficulty they cleared it on. Bloodborne/Dark Souls has one difficulty setting and one setting only. That means anyone who beat it experienced the same game with the same settings. that means the most skillful player beat it at the same player who decided to grind and abuse exploits that’s available in the whole game. Some body who beat Devil May Cry on Dante Must Die is skilled. Someone who beat soulsborne by choosing to farm for EXP is not.

"because we don’t know what difficulty they cleared it on"

That is exactly my point. We don't know what a person who beat DMC overcame. we DO know what a person who beat DS overcame. How they did it is sort of irrelevant. You know how much grinding you'd need to do you beat Ornstein and Smough without breaking a sweat?

I don't because I didn't have the patience for that. I don't care if you used patience and cunning tactics or raw skill and speed, you still beat O and S, that is something to be proud of.

but you’re arguing skill. There is no skill in deciding “I’m gonna go kill these low level mooks for 300 hours and reap the benefits of playing the game on easy mode.” We do that in Pokémon. We do that in final fantasy. Those are not very hard games. I commend the person’s patience for being able to do that and the mind numbingly boring hours that went into it. But it’s not skillful at all.

Last night I literally spent about 2 hours or so grinding for blood vials in bloodborne by respawning the same weak enemies again and again. I was able to do this while multitasking of texting on the phone, watching a YouTube video on my second monitor while my game was muted and I did a repeated process over and over again. It was easy and dumb and mindnumbingly brain dead mental dental floss. I could not do something like that on DMC’s Dante Must Die Mode or Bayonetta’s hardest difficulty.

Well, really I'm arguing achievement, and while I did sat "skill and determination" in an earlier comment, I suppose it could be said that skill OR determination would be more accurate. I mean, really you need both, but what you lack in skill you can cover with determination, but the achievement is still the same. It's about effort for reward. DS always requires a certain level of effort, DMC can be completed with a much lower level of effort.

Can I ask, Do you enjoy grinding for levels to beat the bosses? do you feel a sense of reward or accomplishment when you win?

I think you should feel that, but I wonder, is it actually worth it for you?

To some people, it is, so IDK why you're arguing this. By your logic, SMT would never exist if people didn't find the grind worth it.

Yeah I don’t mind grinding. I was raised on JRPGS since I was 4. Grinding is just a part of the system for any game with heavy RPG events. I play Atlus games where grinding is literally required for some bosses. Do I feel achievement when I beat a boss? Depends. I play for story and enjoyment first. Not some imaginary form of achievement/validation/bragging rights. The only real accomplishment I feel when beating a game was the fact that I enjoyed it and was able to play it.

Do I feel accomplished beating soulsborne bosses even if I only achieved it through dumb grinding? Yes. Why? Because I want to move forward with the lore. Because I’m having fun. Grinding does not bug me, I like watching the little numbers tick up to make the road easier for me and does not lessen any sense of “accomplishment” I get when I advance. Why in the world would I want to make things harder for me and therefore more frustrating and compromise my level of fun? But if a game can be beaten through grinding it’s not really worth bragging about like so many elitist internet tough guys like to do. There are skilled games out there. Games with RPG leveling elements ain’t it.

This is a bafflingly bad analogy.

You realize that, like, the Olympics and professional sports leagues are not the only venues in which people play organized sports? Not everyone who plays basketball, or goes running, or whatever, is trying to be an Olympian or a professional basketball player. There's generally a huge number of different levels of competitive and non-competitive ways that people play sports, and there are often huge rule differences across those different levels, because not everyone needs to, is interested in, or can compete in the same way that professionals or Olympians can. A casual baseball league might have very different rules than Major League Baseball, and that's OK, because they're not at all doing the same thing. Someone who's playing in a casual baseball league isn't doing something wrong, or somehow weakening The Spirit Of The Game, by doing so. Sports leagues actively do what you're saying that they don't do, and it's a good thing, too. If the creators of Sekiro or Bloodborne don't want to add an easy mode, that's obviously their right, but it doesn't make the idea morally wrong somehow.

Also, adding an easy mode wouldn't lessen the accomplishment of actually beating the game on the harder mode at all. It would still be just as difficult an accomplishment. So I don't get all that part of it, either.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4516 ]

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