[ SECRET POST #639 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #639 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → here! (RANK 16)

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 368 secrets from Secret Submission Post #092.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I think he's a rapist because he's not sleeping with Jack and/or
Ianto. That makes total sense.

Sorry, bb. I think he's a rapist because he RAPED SOMEONE(S).

I think I could actually like Owen (in the same way I like House...he's an asshole, but an entertaining asshole) if it weren't for that scene, but I'm a Watsonian at heart and can't bring myself to like a rapist, even if he is only one because the writer didn't think about the implications of what he wrote.

As for taking things "too seriously," guilty as charged, I do think rape is a very serious matter and I'm not willing to just ignore it.
Nonetheless, I do think that Owen is/was the most interesting character and that Burn Gorman is/was by far the best actor on the show. Owen, however, is intensely unlikeable.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I think he's a rapist because he's not sleeping with Jack and/or Ianto. That makes total sense.

You’d actually be surprised at how every other characters are seen negatively but a large part of that fandom.

I understand your point of view, I really do. I, however, saw it another way. I think he just changed himself to be more desirable – the way everyone does when they go out looking to get laid or just to flirt. I didn’t see anything wrong with that, and forgot about it by the time the episode was finished. I was incredibly surprised to see how many people wanked over it on the internet – it seriously turned me off the fandom. ‘specially since I’m pretty sure if Owen was a girl, there would have been no wank at all. It’s okay to not agree with something a character did, but you all sound so condescending: `I think it was RAPE, so look at me, being all self-righteous and MIGHTY about TAKNG IT SERIOUSLY, because IT IS VERY SERIOUS, GUYZ!’ Don’t misunderstand me; I think rape is horrible and wrong also, but screaming RAPE! At everything lessens what it really is.

Yes, you do sound like that. And wonderfully passive-aggressive. I know I sound like that as well, but it gets kind of annoying to get branded as a bad person because I didn’t see something the same way you did.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

You’d actually be surprised at how every other characters are seen negatively but a large part of that fandom.

So, because a certain subset of Torchwood fandom seems to only like two characters, anyone who finds fault with anyone other than Jack and Ianto must be part of that group?


`I think it was RAPE, so look at me, being all self-righteous and MIGHTY about TAKNG IT SERIOUSLY, because IT IS VERY SERIOUS, GUYZ!’

If the point was to show what a good and conscientious person I was, I wouldn't commenting anon, bb.


I know I sound like that as well, but it gets kind of annoying to get branded as a bad person because I didn’t see something the same way you did.

No one is branding anyone as a bad person, except perhaps Owen.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, also, re: " ‘specially since I’m pretty sure if Owen was a girl, there would have been no wank at all."

I definitely agree that there would have been way less wank if a female character had done the same, but that doesn't make it okay. Society in general takes women raping men less seriously than the other way around but that doesn't mean it's okay. Rape is a serious issue no matter who it is being raped.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not saying that a woman raping a man is less serious - I'm saying that it takes a lot more for people to consider that yes, the woman raped the man. In this case, if the genders had been reversed, so one would have seen this as rape. It's really to late to say you would have.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

I know that's not what you are saying. I was saying that society views it as less serious, but that doesn't mean it is actually less serious. How is it "really late to say I would have" since it never actually happened. If the genders had been reversed I absolutely would have seen it as rape and since you cannot, in fact, read my mind, you have nothing to back up your assumption that I wouldn't.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

So, because a certain subset of Torchwood fandom seems to only like two characters, anyone who finds fault with anyone other than Jack and Ianto must be part of that group?

This is another proof of you taking things too seriously. It's not because it invloves rape, apparently.

If the point was to show what a good and conscientious person I was, I wouldn't commenting anon, bb.

Then why aren't you replying at all? To make me see the light? That's a sign of being 'self-righteous and mighty'.

No one is branding anyone as a bad person, except perhaps Owen.

You can not agree a dislike a characteré, but I don't think anyone has the right to seriously brand anyone, including fictional characters, as a bad person.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

This is another proof of you taking things too seriously. It's not because it invloves rape, apparently.

Uhm, what? I was just pointing out that the argument made no sense.

Then why aren't you replying at all? To make me see the light? That's a sign of being 'self-righteous and mighty'.

To express what I think on the matter. Why are you replying?

You can not agree a dislike a characteré, but I don't think anyone has the right to seriously brand anyone, including fictional characters, as a bad person.

Who's being self-righteous, now? I'm not allowed to say that I think a fictional character isn't such a nice guy?

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Uhm, what? I was just pointing out that the argument made no sense.

It's because it wasn't an arguement.

To express what I think on the matter. Why are you replying?

Also to express what I think. And because I'm interested on how you make your point stand. And because I'm too proud to just say 'fuck it, it isn't worth it.'

Who's being self-righteous, now? I'm not allowed to say that I think a fictional character isn't such a nice guy?

I'm not saying you aren't allowed to. I'm just saying you shouldn't say it and expect people to agree with you because you think the only valid point of view is yours. And you didn't say you thought he was a bad person. You just said he was, and there's a world of difference on thinking something and saying it as a universal truth.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

It's because it wasn't an arguement.

Sorry, statement, line of thinking, whatever you want to call it. Stop being so petty.

And you didn't say you thought he was a bad person.

Sorry, I thought it was implied that it was what I thought. I will no preface everything I say with "THIS IS WHAT I THINK:" instead of just stating the thought and expecting people to understand normal human conversation.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Oops, to make more sense of that last sentence, pretend I didn't miss the "w" on the end of "now."

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not being any more petty than you.

Actually, in a 'normal human conversation', the way you are saying something is as important as what you're saying. Not, the 'this is what I think' isn't implied in every conversation you ever have. Yes, you should say it if you expect people to take it that way, especially on the Internet.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not being any more petty than you.

LOL. Case in point.

Yes, you should say it if you expect people to take it that way, especially on the Internet.

Sorry, that's just idiotic. Do you have any idea how irritating that would be if every person's opinion was prefaced by "THIS IS WHAT I THINK PLEASE DO NO ASSUME THAT I AM PUTTING THIS FORTH AS A UNIVERSAL TRUTH"...?

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

"Changed himself to be more desirable" is the same thing as taking away someone's ability to consent. That woman had no interest in Owen, before he used that spray to remove her free will. Owen wasn't more attractive. The point of the drug was that it removed the ability to choose (see: the boyfriend that would have kicked his ass, but did a complete 180 after being sprayed). They didn't get to choose. It was rape.

The Master has a huge following and isn't very nice. There's no reason to make Owen a fluffybunnykins, when he's perfectly capable of using drugs to manipulate people.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Hum, no? No one said the drug's effect was to take away someone's ability to consent. You can choose to see it that way, but you're basing your judgement on very little proof, here.

At least admit that.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

No one said that, but it's very obvious from watching the scene.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

I happen to think that no, it wasn't obvious, unless you are looking for things to judge.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, you got me. I was watching the first episode of Torchwood not because I thought I might enjoy it (and I do enjoy Torchwood, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything each character does) but because I was LOOKING FOR THINGS TO JUDGE! I do so love judging.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

You're not alone, anon. Obviously, we're just looking for things to hate about a show that we like.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

It's not what I meant. I'm saying you go into a show and get way to personally involved about 'subtext'.

I do think you love judging, though, it's true, and are really looking for things to hate.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

We didn't look for it. It's plain as day to anyone that understands what rape means. It's sad that you're too deficient to recognize it.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

It's so nice of you telling me that I'm deficient for not seeing things the way you do! Now I see the truth!

That will make me change my mind, like, right now!

(I really don't know why I replied to this. It really isn't worth it.)

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Was it more obvious when he did it to the boyfriend?

Boyfriend before rape spray: I'm going to kick your head in for taking my girlfriend.
Boyfriend after rape spray: Come here and kiss me... Om nom nom.

Spot the difference? He used a drug on them to make them pliable. Owen would have fucked them both without their informed consent. That is rape.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

Did you watch the scene? The woman made a choice not to have sex with him. The man made a choice to do something other than have sex with him. They clearly communicated that choice to Owen. Instead of respecting their choice not to have sex with him, he used scifi "fuck me" spray to get them to have sex with him. Their behavior indicated that they didn't have a choice about finding him attractive or having sex with him.

You are the one twisting the scene. It's very obvious that "no" doesn't mean "no" to you. They said no. He didn't respect that. He's a rapist.

Re: 110

[(Anonymous)]

This.