[ SECRET POST #653 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #653 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.
[Katekyo Hitman Reborn!; Dino/Hibari]


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103.
[Stargate Atlantis; McShep]


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104.
[Beatles]


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105.


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106.


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107.


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108.


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109.
[Miyavi]


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110.


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111.
[Catherine Tate/James Nesbitt]


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112.
[FFVII etc; Zack Fair]


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113.


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114.
[The Office]


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115.


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116.
[Camp Rock]


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117.
[Kingdom Hearts]


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118.
[Picture is Torchwood]


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119.
[Vincent Van Gogh/Paul Gauguin]


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120.
[Matila]


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121.


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122.


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123.
[Detroit Metal City]


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124.
[Mamma Mia (movie)]


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125.


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126.


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127.


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128.
[Code Geass]


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129.


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130.


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131.
[Alexander Hamilton?]


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132.


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133.


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134.
[Xenosaga]


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135.
[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]


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136.


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137.
[Yu Yu Hakusho]


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138.


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139.


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140.
[Gurren Lagann; Kittan]


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141.


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142.
[Torchwood]


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143.


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144.
[OrgInfinity; Black Tears]


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145.
[Hellboy]


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146.
[pic is GirlSnake and GirlOtacon from MGS]


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147.
[G Gundam]


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148.
[The Office]


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149.
[Zelda: Phantom Hourglass]


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150.


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151.


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152.
[Hoshi no Yakata by Tori Maia]


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153.
[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]


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154.
[Destination Truth]


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155.
[World of Warcraft]


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156.
[Metal Gear Solid]


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157.


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158.


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159.
[Death Note]


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160.



Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

HAS EVERYONE SEEN THE MOTHER 3 FAN TRANSLATION? (:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 367 secrets from Secret Submission Post #094.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

The reason most people react badly to such things is that they're often paired with annoying behavior such as chasing people with yaoi paddles, throwing vitriol at female characters for "getting in the way," and shrieking about how much het sucks.

Bullshit. Yaoi/slash fans are not more prone to bad behavior than gen or het fans. The real problem is that so many people see a yaoi/slash fan behaving badly and think, "Yaoi/slash fans must all be assholes," instead of "This particular person is an asshole."

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Yaoi/slash is the trendy thing among 14 year olds into Kingdom Hearts. It's as cliched and common as Mary Sues.

Also, you just got three specific examples of shit yaoi fans do that het/gen ones don't: Hate on female charas for "being in the way," run around slapping people with paddles and insist that their ships are inherently more worthy and subversive (obviously I am leaving bona-fide homophobes out of this discussion since it is only tangentally relevant.)

[(Anonymous)]

Yaoi/slash is the trendy thing among 14 year olds into Kingdom Hearts. It's as cliched and common as Mary Sues.

That's interesting, but I don't see how it's relevant to my original point.

Hate on female charas for "being in the way,"

You're kidding, right? All 'shippers hate on characters they think are "in the way." The most vitriolic female character bashing I've ever seen was in a femslash fandom.

run around slapping people with paddles and insist that their ships are inherently more worthy and subversive

Het and gen fans do this, too; they just don't use the word "subversive." Het fans are superior because they don't "twist the characters around just for the buttsex" (twisting the characters around for the penis-in-vagina sex is totally different!) and gen fans are much deeper and smarter than 'shippers, since they don't write about sex at all.

And I fail to see the difference between accusing someone of homophobia for not liking slash and accusing someone of misogyny for liking it.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

You're kidding, right? All 'shippers hate on characters they think are "in the way." The most vitriolic female character bashing I've ever seen was in a femslash fandom.

No, I'm not. Maybe I mispoke, but my point is that you're not going to hear "I hate all male/female characters" coming from het/gen fandom any time soon.

Het and gen fans do this, too; they just don't use the word "subversive." Het fans are superior because they don't "twist the characters around just for the buttsex" (twisting the characters around for the penis-in-vagina sex is totally different!) and gen fans are much deeper and smarter than 'shippers, since they don't write about sex at all.

No, they don't. In the view of those het shippers, the character in question is straight and therefore slash is OOC. It has nothing to do with a holier-than-thou approach to their ships so much as it has to do with either interpretation of the character in some cases or reliance on cultural norms about sexuality in others.

And I fail to see the difference between accusing someone of homophobia for not liking slash and accusing someone of misogyny for liking it.

No one gets accused of being misogynistic simply for liking slash, but if you're going to drag misogyny into the equation then I'd love to point out that the "all het relationships are misogynistic so slash is better" argument is also tired and irritating.

[(Anonymous)]

you're not going to hear "I hate all male/female characters" coming from het/gen fandom any time soon.

So, do you think hating all male/female characters the only form of sexism or just the worst one? Because, while you're right: you don't see much of this* in het and gen fandoms, those fans still say and do a lot of equally sexist things.

It has nothing to do with a holier-than-thou approach to their ships so much as it has to do with either interpretation of the character in some cases or reliance on cultural norms about sexuality in others.

Yes, all het fans are perfect, shining examples of itegrity. None of them are ever elitist, self-righteous, arrogant or holier-than-thou. We should all endeavor to be more like the wonderful het fan, for s/he is truly our superior.

No one gets accused of being misogynistic simply for liking slash

Yes, they do. Maybe not by you, but it does happen.

I'd love to point out that the "all het relationships are misogynistic so slash is better" argument is also tired and irritating.

Yay! A complete non sequitor about the inherent inferiority of slash fans! Do you have any other totally non-hypocritical examples you'd like to share?

* You do see a lot of "all male/female characters suck except for the ones I like," which isn't all that different as far as I'm concerned.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

So, do you think hating all male/female characters the only form of sexism or just the worst one? Because, while you're right: you don't see much of this* in het and gen fandoms, those fans still say and do a lot of equally sexist things.

Neither? I'm aware that other people can do and say sexist things. If you want to actually counter my argument, present me with a sexist trend you see in het/gen fandom that's comparable.

Yes, all het fans are perfect, shining examples of itegrity. None of them are ever elitist, self-righteous, arrogant or holier-than-thou. We should all endeavor to be more like the wonderful het fan, for s/he is truly our superior.

Yeah, because saying that slash fans have superiority complexes about the subversiveness of their ships is the same thing as saying that het fans are all perfect.

Yes, they do. Maybe not by you, but it does happen.

Okay.

Yay! A complete non sequitor about the inherent inferiority of slash fans! Do you have any other totally non-hypocritical examples you'd like to share?

STFD, I never said slash fans were inferior. I said that they had bigger chunks of annoying. Did I mention how irritating it gets when slash fans are so busy being defensive that they don't even notice that no one is attacking them?

[(Anonymous)]

If you want to actually counter my argument, present me with a sexist trend you see in het/gen fandom that's comparable.

This is a tough one for me to answer because we have very different ideas about how serious this behavior is. Saying that you find female characters boring isn't all that bad. Comparatively speaking, anyway. I'd put it up there with calling any sexually active female characters "whores."

Maybe this is because I don't think that there's necessarily a connection between a person's attitude toward female characters and their attitude towards real life women. I've known slash fans who find female characters boring, but have tons of female friends and are devoted to feminist causes. Conversely, I've met people who love female characters, but say that they can't be friends with real life women because "girls are petty cunts."

Yeah, because saying that slash fans have superiority complexes about the subversiveness of their ships is the same thing as saying that het fans are all perfect.

No, but saying that het fans never have superiority complexes is. Since you've clearly forgotten what happened, I'll recap:

You said that slash fans have superiority complexes.

I agreed, but said that het fans do, too: Het fans are superior because they don't "twist the characters around just for the buttsex" (twisting the characters around for the penis-in-vagina sex is totally different!)

You responded by telling me that this wasn't bad behavior, it was totally justified: In the view of those het shippers, the character in question is straight and therefore slash is OOC. It has nothing to do with a holier-than-thou approach to their ships so much as it has to do with either interpretation of the character in some cases or reliance on cultural norms about sexuality in others.

Slash fans who claim that slash is better because it's "subversive" are simply annoying. Het fans who claim that het is superior are either just honest folks defending their interpretations or poor misguided souls. You personally insulted slashers while defending the honor of het fans. Looks like a double standard to me.

STFD, I never said slash fans were inferior. I said that they had bigger chunks of annoying.

And that their annoying was much worse than the annoying of het and gen fans. Oh, and that they're more sexist. And then when I pointed out bad behavior from het fans, you immediately jumped up to defend them, claiming that they were just trying to do the right thing and had no bad motives whatsoever.

Did I mention how irritating it gets when slash fans are so busy being defensive that they don't even notice that no one is attacking them?

This is the best thing I've ever read! You just proved my point! I honestly laughed out loud.

Since I doubt you remember, here's what I originally said:

The real problem is that so many people see a yaoi/slash fan behaving badly and think, "Yaoi/slash fans must all be assholes," instead of "This particular person is an asshole."

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

The only point I was ever trying to make is that slash has more stupid fans than het and gen fans. Everything else has been your extrapolation. You're trying to tell me that I'm aruging that het fans are superior, and I'm not.

[(Anonymous)]

The only point I was ever trying to make is that slash has more stupid fans than het and gen fans. Everything else has been your extrapolation. You're trying to tell me that I'm aruging that het fans are superior, and I'm not.

That's just a lie. I honestly don't know if you're trying to confuse me or just in denial, but it's not true.

Here's what really happened: I started by saying that some people make generalizations about all slash fans based on the bad behavior of a few.

You responded by saying: Also, you just got three specific examples of shit yaoi fans do that het/gen ones don't: Hate on female charas for "being in the way," run around slapping people with paddles and insist that their ships are inherently more worthy and subversive (obviously I am leaving bona-fide homophobes out of this discussion since it is only tangentally relevant.)

I don't see anything about all slash fans being stupid, immature 14 year olds in there.

After that your primary focus was still on the hatred of female characters, not on the relative age or maturity level of slash fans. You didn't bring up the stupidity/maturity factor in this thread at all.

And you still proved my point: when you didn't like what I was saying, you didn't think that I was annoying, you used it as proof of how annoying slash fans are.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Try looking at the full post, then:

"Yaoi/slash is the trendy thing among 14 year olds into Kingdom Hearts. It's as cliched and common as Mary Sues.

Also, you just got three specific examples of shit yaoi fans do that het/gen ones don't..."

I also never said anything about ALL SLASH FANS being stupid and immature 14 year olds. I said that slash fans have a disproportionate amount.

You would have concluded that I proved your point no matter what I said because you're inventing my arguments and feelings on the matter and then responding to them.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

And if it makes you feel better: you're annoying, but you're also typifying the victimized attitudes that some slash fans have for no particular reason. Charges you've levelled against me thus far:

- I think slash fans are way more sexist than het fans
- I think all het fans are perfect, shining examples of integrity
- I am creating double-standards by which to judge slash and het fans
- I believe that het fans never have any bad motives whatsoever
- I am lying, or maybe just in denial
- I think that slash is inferior to het/gen
- I think that all slash fans are stupid, immature 14 year olds

None of which are true, by the way, but damn are you determined to make it out like I hate all slashers.

[infinite-beauty.livejournal.com]

It depends one which fandom you're in. Ginny regularly gets hate from Harry/Hermione shippers, despite the book being over. Mai gets tons of hate from...most of the fandom, but mostly Zuko/Katara shippers.
Tons of non-canon het shippers insist their pairing is 'better' than canon pairings.
I think the only thing left is paddles.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

The people shipping het bash characters for getting in the way, but they tend to avoid broadening their thinking to "All female characters are worthless."

[infinite-beauty.livejournal.com]

Mai icon! Yay!
There are some crazy yaoi fans out there, it's true. I just understood the comment to mean 'Only yaoi fans bash female characters for getting in the way' and wanted to point out that it isn't limited to slashing.
I do hate the 'All female characters are worthless' idea. It's completely ridiculous.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

All I'm saying is that there are more crazy yaoi fans who will pull that type of shit than there are crazy het fans who will do something similar.

[xanykaos.livejournal.com]

I'm not a yaoi fan whatsoever, and I do find it more something a bit trendy and often kind of tiresome (Why, why is there always oodles of yaoi art, but next-to-no het-art for the fandoms I'm in?!)

But I have to say, us het-fans are just as likely to be annoyed with a female character for being "in the way" of a preferred ship. I'm guilty of it, though as I've gotten older--and hopefully more mature--I try and catch myself, and then force myself to find a good, legitimate reason for disliking a character beyond shipping. It's made fandom much more enjoyable for me. ^_^

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

I had a long comment I was going to write up here, but I realized the issue was much simpler than I was making it out to be.

I did not say that simply being a fan of yaoi or slash is often paired with annoying behavior such as etc etc.

I said that exhibiting certain "rabid yaoi fangirl" traits such as proclaiming oneself a "fag hag" and shipping slash pairings because they're hot is often paired with annoying behavior such as what I named.

If someone had posted, "I identify with my favorite female character and like to pair her with hot guys. What's wrong with that?" I would have responded similarly, noting that while there isn't really anything wrong with that, it's often associated with annoying behaviors in het fans.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, okay. I must have misunderstood you. There are a lot of people who do think that slash/yaoi fans are "worse" than het or gen fans (like paperclipchains, for one) but obviously you're not one of them. Sorry!

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Keep putting words in my mouth, bb. annwyd and I are on the same page, here.

[(Anonymous)]

When did I put words into your mouth? You do believe that gen and het fans are in some way superior to slash fans, right?

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

No, I just think that it's perfectly valid to talk about annoying yaoi fans in a different light than annoying het and gen fans because irritating, 14 year old yaoi fangirls are partaking in a fandom phenomena that's unlike het or gen. So, I think that there are more annoying yaoi/slash fans than het/gen ones, that the annoying factor is different, and that it doesn't do anyone any good to pretend like the DA demographic's propensity to tender boy love isn't the Twilight of the internet. I don't think it makes het/gen superior or that it means that no slash/yaoi fan can ever be intelligent and compelling, just like how I don't think that the existence of Twilight means that books everywhere suck.

[(Anonymous)]

... so that's a yes, then?

I typed up four different responses to this comment, but that's what they all boiled down to. You think that het and gen fans are, on the whole, less annoying than slash and yaoi fans, right? And that, even when they are annoying, it's a better kind of annoying, yes? And, if I'm interpreting one of your previous comments correctly, you also believe that het and gen fans always have good, valid reasons for criticizing slash and yaoi. Do you think that slash and yaoi fans could have good, valid reasons for dislike het or gen? Why do you give het and gen fans the benefit of the doubt, but not slashers?

Look, I'm not trying to be mean here. But I just can't imagine what other conclusion I could logically draw from your argument.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Um... no. I think that there are more annoying yaoi fans than there are het/gen fans. I think this is so because yaoi is, as I said, trendy among 14 year old fangirls who happen to be really annoying, probably by virture of being 14.

Superiority has nothing to do with anything.

[(Anonymous)]

I think this is so because yaoi is, as I said, trendy among 14 year old fangirls who happen to be really annoying, probably by virture of being 14.

All right. So, now your point is that the vast majority of slash fans are 14 and that 14 year olds are inherently annoying. Because of this, the vast majority of slash fans are annoying. That about it?

The problem there is that I don't know a single 14 year old slash fan. In my experience, most slashers are between 20 and 30. This was true even when I was 15 year old slash fan. That doesn't mean that there aren't young fans out there -- they just aren't the majority.

You also seem to be implying that there are either no 14 year old het fans, or that those fans are less annoying. The first is definitely not true (who do you think is writing all those Mary Sues?) and the second... well, that goes back to the "slashers are inferior" territory.

[kristenell.livejournal.com]

I am going to disagree with this, because for every fandom where the majority of the crazies are slash fans, there is a fandom where the majority of annoying fen are het fans. And then you have fandoms that are equally annoying on both sides.

I am also going to say that most of the fandoms that are primarily housing 14 years old also tend to be primarily het. (I say this as a het fan).

So I don't think anyone can conclusive say which side is more annoying.