[ SECRET POST #658 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #658 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.


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103.
[Looking For Group]


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104.
[Johnny the Homicidal Maniac]


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105.
[Fanfiction; Voldemort Kaulitz]


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106.


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107.


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108.


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109.


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110.


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111.
[The Penguin of Death]


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112.


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113.
[Fullmetal Alchemist]


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114.
[Death Note, Mello]


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115.


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116.
[MCA, KH II]


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117.
[Gurren Lagann]


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118.
[Fringe]


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119.


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120.


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121.


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122.


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123.


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124.


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125.


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126.


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127.
[Psychonauts]


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128.
[Avatar]


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129. [broken]


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130.
[Ashes to Ashes, Shaz Granger]


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131.


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132.
[Code Geass, C.C.]


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133.


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134.


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135.
[Whitest Kids U' Know]


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136.


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137.
[Nabari no Ou]


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138.
[Kamen Rider Kiva]


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139.


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140.


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141.


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142.


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143.


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144.


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145.


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146.
[BoA]


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147.
[QI, Jeremy Clarkson, Sean Lock]


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148.


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149.
[Resized]


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150.


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151.


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152.


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153.
[Star Trek]


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154.
[Fast and the Furious]


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155.
[I suggest Kamina]


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156.
[Code Geass]


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157.


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158.
[Ken Russell's The Devils, Father Barre]


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159.
[Supernatural]


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160.
[Avatar]


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161.


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162.


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163.
[Stephen Colbert/Kathleen Parker]


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164.
[Death Note]


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165.


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166.



Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/com (com link to get more buildings!)

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #094.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

The rage is strong with me today

[zidane.livejournal.com]

107. DID YOU MISS THE WHOLE 'FAIRY TALE' ASPECT OF TUTU OR WHAT

109. Alright anon, careful with trolling shit like that, it can get you put on a list.

Also yeah, it's disturbing.

117. Okay I'll come right out and ask it: what's so different/great/AMAZING about Simon/Nia??????? I'm willing to listen, I just don't get it.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

For me what makes Simon/Nia great is that they're very clearly soulmates, we see lots of stuff about how their LOVE SAVES THE UNIVERSE, how they can reach each other across worlds--but rather than having this just lobbed at us, or supported only weakly through brief moments and occasional symbolism, we see all the little ways they interact and make each other better that lead up to it. If TTGL itself is a reconstruction of the Super Robot genre, then Simon/Nia is a faithful reconstruction of the concept of true love.

I'm working on a ship_manifesto essay that I intend to post in the next few days, but it's so long that I half suspect people who aren't diehard fans will wind up skipping over it anyway (which ruins the whole point but sooob I can't make it shorter), so...tiny tiny summary here.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[zidane.livejournal.com]

If TTGL itself is a reconstruction of the Super Robot genre, then Simon/Nia is a faithful reconstruction of the concept of true love.

... I'll be interested to see how you back that statement up. I don't really see the if/then correlation between the two.

I suppose my problem is that I never saw any development between the two, or even in Nia herself. She comes "packaged" purely to "make Simon better"--hell, she even comes in a box. And the seven years in which their relationship "developed" aren't even shown. Yes Simon loves Nia and Nia loves Simon ... but I do not see how that relationship is particularly amazing. It. Just is.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

I wasn't even talking about the seven year timeskip, actually; I think most of the development happens between episode 9 and 15. The novels hint at this as well, from what I've read.

I don't mind that Nia is "packaged" to "make Simon better," because Simon "appears" to "make Nia better" as well, and we get to see the little ways in which this happens, and I find that inspiring.

But if it's not your thing, well, obviously me telling you why it's mine isn't going to change your mind.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

As a relationship, Nia/Simon is pretty piss poor, let me just get that out of the way. I don't like the couple, didn't find it moving on a personal level, and outright guffawed when it turned out Simon's "deepest inner desire" didn't even have Nia anywhere near it. (I don't ship Simon with anyone else, that just struck me as amusing considering the circumstances) Their actual romantic interaction is limited to a few scenes, and we never get a concrete sense of what the one means to the other, aside from the fact that they are in Love.

However, the entirety of Gurren Lagann tends to use emotional shorthand like this, as you know. The characters are more important as embodiment of themes and ideals than as actual characters, with notable exceptions being Rossiu and Kamina.

In that respect, there is one interesting, unique thing about Simon/Nia, and that is his refusal to override her choice to die at the end of the series. Nia, as someone who had been used her entire life, including by the narrative in regards to Simon, got the ability as last to choose her own destiny, and Simon loved her enough to let her go.

That's pretty much it.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[7thisgod.livejournal.com]

That's because episode 26 wasn't about their "deepest inner desires", probably. It was about them recognizing the infinite possibilities of this Universe, it was about them losing themselves in consciousness.

And we indeed get a perfectly clear sense of what Simon and Nia mean to each other. Simon finds purpose in Nia. He is just a digger, without much direction. Nia gives him something to fight for. Nia finds validation, she finds something to make concrete her ethereal and senseless existence.

As for the second paragraph, Simon and Nia have plenty of actual characterization. Just because it wasn't delivered in concrete exposition it doesn't mean it isn't there. They use visuals and actions to make a point, you know.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

That's because episode 26 wasn't about their "deepest inner desires", probably. It was about them recognizing the infinite possibilities of this Universe, it was about them losing themselves in consciousness.

No, it was about what they really wanted. Simon wanted a Kamina that would never get killed and leave him alone, even if it meant that "Kamina" was a craven coward, but it wasn't what he needed. Gurren Lagann being all about "choice", the point of those sequences was to give people the things they thought would make them happy, and then have them make the choice to put that aside and do the right thing.

And we indeed get a perfectly clear sense of what Simon and Nia mean to each other. Simon finds purpose in Nia. He is just a digger, without much direction. Nia gives him something to fight for. Nia finds validation, she finds something to make concrete her ethereal and senseless existence.

Validation of what? I can buy what Simon gets out of a relationship with Nia, but every justification I've ever seen of what Nia gets out of it very vague, probably because the series chose not to focus on her as a character for a very large chunk, and tended to use her as a plot device instead.

As for the second paragraph, Simon and Nia have plenty of actual characterization. Just because it wasn't delivered in concrete exposition it doesn't mean it isn't there. They use visuals and actions to make a point, you know.

If I wasn't including "visuals and actions", I don't think I'd be able to count Nia and Simon as a couple at all. Simon and Nia looking off in the distance together makes a lovely "picture", but it doesn't tie them to the viewer on concrete level.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[7thisgod.livejournal.com]

Response to first paragraph: Except the writer have come out to say that the sequence in episode 26 was about possibilities. It's about how you can lose yourself through recognition. Simon took life by his own hands, he decided to be himself. That's why it was an alternative universe and not a simple dream sequence. Gurren-Lagann is a show about "act or not to act". Characters aren't given a choice, characters are given an opportunity. They are who they are, in their hands is only the decision to fight or to run away.

2nd paragraph: To validate her own existence. Nia was infatuated by the love he imprinted into the Kamina statues; she thought they were the definition of "human". Simon made Nia able to accept herself as herself. The show focused enough on her character, with expressions and body language that say plenty about her thought-processes and feelings.

3rd paragraph: And "visuals" include the expressions of the cast members. Nia's look of pain when confronting Genome in episode 15, her melancholic look in episode 17, the way in which she reacts to Lord Genome in episode 27... it's the animated equivalent of "acting". Cartoon characters talk too much, Gurren-Lagann tries to not fall prey of this mistake.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

They are who they are, in their hands is only the decision to fight or to run away.

How is this not "choice"?

Simon made Nia able to accept herself as herself.

Where were we shown her conflict with "accepting herself"?

And "visuals" include the expressions of the cast members.

Which...negates nothing I said. If I can't connect to the reason Nia is frowning or looks melancholy, then it's just a nuanced picture.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[csakuras.livejournal.com]

Validation of what? I can buy what Simon gets out of a relationship with Nia, but every justification I've ever seen of what Nia gets out of it very vague, probably because the series chose not to focus on her as a character for a very large chunk, and tended to use her as a plot device instead.

I'd suggest rewatching episode 11, as it's a good character development episode for Nia as well as Simon and sets up the basic points of their relationship. When Nia is told that she was created as a doll, she learns that her father, the one person who she loved and trusted, never meant for her to be her own person. But because of the things she learned while around the humans, she stands up to Guame anyway and decides to believe in Simon. Then minutes later, Simon shows up to save her, validating her belief, and tells her that no matter her past, she should live as herself. So when her father failed her and her statis as a person was put to question, Simon gave her something to believe in and valued her as an individual. Those same themes are also repeated in the second half of the story.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[csakuras.livejournal.com]

it turned out Simon's "deepest inner desire" didn't even have Nia anywhere near it.

She doesn't appear in it herself, but a lot of things symbolizing their connection appear in the dream. Like the engagement ring, the fact that Simon is where he and Nia first met when he starts to realize that something is wrong, and how he escapes from the dreamworld by opening her box (and light illuminates the dark just like when they met). All of that was intentional by the way, according to an interview with the director & assistant director.

And in the first half of the episode, Simon being reminded that Nia was still waiting for him is what made him determined again to keep going after learning the truth about the Spiral Nemesis, so who knows, maybe it was an intentional move by the Anti-Spirals not to have her appear personally.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

I noticed the box symbolism myself, and furthermore, let's also keep in mind that his vision was ultimately a distraction. My issue is that by making Nia into a "symbol", you remove her importance as a character, a person that could potentially share Simon's life as opposed to some nebulous light that "shows him the way".

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[csakuras.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was a distraction, and that's why I think Nia didn't appear in it personally, but "true" things still showed up like the reminders of Nia and the Kamina who lives inside Simon.

And it was only symbolism for Nia's significant role in Simon's life, just as the real Kamina came to "show him the way." Her individuality and importance as a character is given plenty of light in episode 27.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[7thisgod.livejournal.com]

Nia developed plenty through the show, I believe. She had a purpose in the narrative, thematically speaking, even beyond helping Simon to develop. She started as naive, sheltered, so-spoiled-she-doesn't-know-she-is-spoiled princess without much information on the world beyond the absolute reality Genome had provided her with. She starts shaping herself through her interactions with the cast and comes to appreciate Simon because of his love for Kamina and his dedication to any task. To her understanding, Simon's statue of Kamina is the very definition of humanity. Genome's abandonment stripped Nia from her identity, it took away all she believed was correct and Simon appears to give Nia something to believe in, something to validate her own existence.

It just grew from there, really... and that's more than enough to guarantee their relationship as compelling. Besides, let us not forget that maybe Nia saw a little bit of Genome in Simon; you can't afford ignore the possibilities of a father complex when it comes to Gainax shows.

Regardless, perhaps that's not for you and I understand it's just silly to argue about personal preferences; but there is plenty of material to understand the development of their relationship.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

Genome's abandonment stripped Nia from her identity, it took away all she believed was correct and Simon appears to give Nia something to believe in, something to validate her own existence.

This is why her character is hampered by being so closely associated with Simon's mid-development, because you would think she would have had a similar crisis of faith since her world was supposedly shattered like Simon's. On the contrary, the show only pays lip service to the idea that being kicked out of her father's house had led to any major amount of suffering on her half.

Her character arc isn't "finding a purpose" as much as it is "learning the ways of the world". For some reason, Nia pops out of the box equipped with boundless optimism and never questions or loses that for no discernible reason, even when every single other cast member has their own individual crucibles as they make their way through the series.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[7thisgod.livejournal.com]

But she indeed has a similar crisis of faith. She isn't trying to find a purpose, she was trying to understand what it meant to be human. It isn't in Nia's character to extendedly grieve, but her own type of insecurity was delivered plenty through the show. She asks for a proper burial of her sisters in order to validate her own existence, she hesitates to kill her father in episode 15, she in at first scared of Simon's proposal because she wants to protect her own identity and she ultimately asks him to allow her in order to become Nia once again.

And "every single other cast member"? How were Viral or Yoko given more of an individual crucible than Nia? How was Kamina given more of an individual crucible than Nia? I remember Kamina screaming for his father for a brief sequence in episode 2 and "forgetting" about it in subsequent adventures.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

She isn't trying to find a purpose, she was trying to understand what it meant to be human.

I deliberately said she wasn't trying to find a purpose.

It isn't in Nia's character to extendedly grieve, but her own type of insecurity was delivered plenty through the show.

Where was this?

She asks for a proper burial of her sisters in order to validate her own existence, she hesitates to kill her father in episode 15, she in at first scared of Simon's proposal because she wants to protect her own identity and she ultimately asks him to allow her in order to become Nia once again.

How were Viral or Yoko given more of an individual crucible than Nia?

Youko's was finding her purpose--unlike Nia's. Viral's was similar in that he was searching for a place to call home. All of the (remaining) mains' are illuminated by their scenes in 26.

How was Kamina given more of an individual crucible than Nia? I remember Kamina screaming for his father for a brief sequence in episode 2 and "forgetting" about it in subsequent adventures.

You are kidding, right? Kamina is the second most complex character in the entire show--and I didn't even like him all that much, honestly--Kamina was operating almost entirely on bravado and felt like the only thing he could really do was try to give strength to people like Simon. He outright says this, so I'm not sure why you're thinking that Kamina's development is somehow tied to his father.

That's why he needed to die, narratively, before Simon figured out there was a "man behind the curtain".

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

she hesitates to kill her father in episode 15

When I rewatched, I interpreted this as her seeing her last chance at being validated as a person in the way she'd originally hoped for being destroyed. That she then got up and went back to Simon instead of just...letting herself fall over the edge too says a lot about her strength.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Having been following these threads, I'm just going to observe here that it's possible, as I do, to acknowledge that the show could have done more to develop Nia, but still love what is done with her.

I have issues with the way Gurren Lagann handles its female characters (yes, Yoko too). I essentially agree with everything csakuras and 7thisgod are saying about Nia's development--I think it was there if you look hard enough--but I am disappointed that so much of it was subtext, whereas so much of a lot of the rest of the cast's development was text. I understand why other people would find her less interesting than some characters, but I don't think she's less complex...just somewhat mishandled. I hold out hope that the second movie will give Nia some actual action and screentime towards the end, so we can see her own thoughts and decisions instead of having to guess at them, but that won't fix the flaws of the original show.

Also, while Simon/Nia may be too "perfect" for your tastes, I like it a lot because I feel like it justifies its perfection (as well as appealing to my fondness for certain types of connections between characters). We're not told "Simon and Nia are ridiculously good for each other," we're shown it. You may prefer more conflict in your pairings (and I usually do too), but Simon/Nia appeals to the part of me that likes really big, epic love that's also just plain cute.

Re: The rage is strong with me today

[7thisgod.livejournal.com]

I personally, in terms of Nia-content, find it reassuring that Maasahiko Ootsuka is credited as director for both Gurren-Lagann movies. Not only is Nia his favorite character, he was already in charge of 4 of the 6 major Nia episodes. (9, 15, 17, 27)

We'll know tomorrow, I guess.

117.

[(Anonymous)]

I watched the anime and I still I don't get it. I think it's the same 4-5 people posting these secrets to display their obsessions with a rather mediocre pairing.

Re: 117.

[(Anonymous)]

That would be way too sad, really. I personally hold people on a higher standard.

Reminds me of that Rei versus Asuka discussion in 4chan in which people were claiming most of the votes for Asuka were from a single fan and I just said that that would be pathetic since this shit isn't even SaiMoe.

And how is the pairing mediocre? How is your opinion an absolute? Really, you're talking as if only what you felt was correct and everyone else just a deluded fool.

simon/nia

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, after reading all of the TL;DR about this couple, I have just one thing to say.

You're free to like or not like whatever you want.

Really, it's okay if you like a specific couple and someone else doesn't. Also, the reverse is true too: it's okay if you don't like something, and someone else does. You don't have to write long essays about why you're right and why the other person is wrong. The only justification you need for how you feel is that's what you like. It's okay for people to feel differently than you.

Re: simon/nia

[csakuras.livejournal.com]

Someone asked why people like the pairing so we explained. It's not like anyone on either side was being really wanky here. It was a rather civil debate considering how these things usually turn out. And we pretty much came to the same conclusion.

Re: simon/nia

[zidane.livejournal.com]

I never said that I don't ship it, I just don't understand why it's being touted as a particularly amazing romance \o_O/