fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4764 ]

[ SECRET POST #4764 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4764 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #682.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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07. https://i.imgur.com/XRRyBqQ.png

Thanks for making my secret, anon, its perfect :)

Thank you for commenting! :)

That art makes me want to lick my screen.

Same

Star Wars might not be the fandom for you, then.

Why not?

Two things: Lucasfilm/the SW fandom adores woobifying its villains and Lucasfilm itself has stepped back on how villainous Kylo/Ben was.

There are parts of the fandom that don't woobify him. You just have to find the right sections to hang out in.

I'm not into Kylo, but I completely agree as far as the villains I like go. I don't get why it's so hard for some people to just...like a villain who is a villain, you know?

I like villains to be villains, too, but "hard for people"? Seriously?

Believe me, I know how frustrating it is to be surrounded by woobifiers when all you want is an in-character villain, but I wish we in fandom could be less condescending about what is basically other people's preferences. Isn't the point of fandom to engage with media in a transformative and often wish-fulfillment capacity, regardless of whether it makes sense? A lot of people seem to get joy out of defanging villains. I don't understand it, and I don't enjoy it, but I'm not going to say it's because they're too dumb to know any better because I know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of comments like that, and it's not a nice feeling.

Just my two cents. Obviously you have every right to say whatever you like.

As a lifelong villain fan, 100% agree with everything you said.

Especially the too dumb to know any better part as that seems to be creeping into comments about liking villains in general regardless of how in character you like them. I'm tired of having to defend what I like. At least the woobiefiers get me even if I don't agree with their interpretation.

AYRT - I didn't mean to be condescending or imply that woobifiers are "too dumb to know any better", just that to me personally, it's always seemed like an awful lot of extra effort and bending in odd directions to make excuses and twist canon. Obviously anyone is free to do whatever floats their boat, it just makes me tired to think about when the part I like best about villains is that they're villains.

Well, Ben is more complex than a straight up villain, but I think it would have been hard to explain away his survival in a way that made up for all the horrible things he's done if he had not died. That's why I was okay with him passing on. Logistically, Rey would have had to protect him from being prosecuted as a war criminal or he would have to go into hiding for the rest of his life, which could have worked.

But yeah, fandom does kind of put him on this pedestal and it does get out of hand at times. People forget about the pile of ashes he made out of his enemies and all the random people he executed for his own ends.

Yeah, back a year or so ago I tried reading a little bit of Reylo fanfic. I wanted fics where he was characterized as the bad guy he was, but where he also had a redemption arc. But every fic I found where he had a redemption arc, the author tended to lean into the idea that the people in his life had failed him and he had a lot of pain and really it was at least half other people's faults that he was bad.

After trying a few fics and them all turning out like that, I just went, nope, I'm out.

In all fairness, redeeming Kylo Ren well was a very tall order, and I can't really be that surprised I didn't immediately find a bunch of fics which took on that task. But "redeeming" him by minimizing his horrible actions and finding ways of blaming others for the bad things he did wasn't what I was looking for.

*nods*

I love Reylo, but I've never actually made it all the way through a Reylo fic.

yeah i tried reading some reylo fic as well and just didn't agree with what seemed to be the popular tropes, too much like the woobie!loki brigade for my liking and i couldn't be bothered dealing with another fandom like that. once was enough.

Yeah, when you put it that way it sounds like people are just making up excuses for his actions. He's not completely blameless. In Resistance Reborn Leia says, he has to make his own decision. He chose to go a certain way for a very long time. I think that's what makes his redemption so powerful, not excusing all the bad things he's done.

Some people can get really weird when it comes to liking villains, it's like they can't stand the idea of liking a character who isn't wholesome and pure or something. I swear it had to be a joke but I heard people try to defend some of what Kylo does with the excuse that his father died... like really?

I mean, Kylo KILLED his father. Literally ran him through with a light saber. And I have no idea how you could spin that as an excuse for his behavior.

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(Anonymous) - 2020-01-22 02:45 (UTC) - Expand

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tree_and_leaf - 2020-01-22 11:51 (UTC) - Expand

I see no conflict between acknowledging a villain is awful and excusing every awful thing they've done. I'm just there looking at my fave villains like "Yeah, he committed mass murder. And it was awesome. Who cares about a bunch of fake people dying?"

I mean, by that logic, why care about your fake fave?

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(Anonymous) - 2020-01-23 04:34 (UTC) - Expand

I liked Kylo Ren in the first two movies (for a given definition of "like") but I will also never understand people who defend his behavior. (I didn't see the last movie yet but I have major spoilers about it and it sounds like there are parts of it I would enjoy.)

You should check it out, you might enjoy it. I'm kind of a superfan, but I enjoyed it a lot. I also loved Kylo Ren, but I can't really imagine defending everything he's done. I think what happens in this film completes his arc as a villain and a character in a really satisfying way, but I'm probably pretty biased. :shrug:

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