[ SECRET POST #673 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #673 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Twilight Hotel]


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Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 14 pages, 348 secrets from Secret Submission Post #096.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

123. You have no obligation to be friends with anyone if they do something that hurts you. You definitely have no obligation to be friends with someone who supports taking your rights away.

That said, I know it's not that simple. :/

126. I haven't seen the show, so I can't say for sure. But here's a thought: maybe the show isn't really for white people. There are enough shows out there that cater to white people and marginalize people of color. I know that ideally all fictions would embrace all races and be "for" all races, but meanwhile in the real world, I find myself utterly unable to get worked up about a show that doesn't have interracial relationships or many white characters.

But, you know. Maybe I'm just on edge about this whole issue because I'm sick of the "reverse racist!" name-calling going on after the election.

ETA that I realize the show may well be racist, especially if it stereotypes the black characters obnoxiously, but I got an "it's racist against white people!" vibe from this secret, and I'm not so down with that. Sorry if I misread.

137. No, it just means that something about paternal relationships appeals to you.

(eee, George and Rube ♥)

126 - Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

Being a white female myself, I would have to say you're right in that it's not designed for white people. And I don't really care whether or not it is. But the stereotypes for both whites and blacks on that show are extremely offensive.

Re: 126 - Not OP

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I edited the comment afterwards when I realized that might be the case. Like I said in the edit, I'm a little on edge about all the "reverse racism" cries I've seen going around over the past few days, and that's how the secret came off to me.

If it was actually about how the show stereotypes all races (as it seems to be), then yeah, I can get behind it.

Re: 126 - Not OP, same anon as before

[(Anonymous)]

*nods* Yeah, I can understand. The terms 'racism' and 'reverse racism' seem to be thrown around a lot these days without thought.

Honestly, I don't think you could really name a race or gender that wasn't stereotypical to heck on that show. It probably wasn't meant to be taken seriously, but it sure does get annoying.

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

126) >_o I can't agree with you here. I don't believe that a lack of interracial relationships means it's "not for" white people. Why? because in a show with predominantly white characters, maybe one or two minority characters... if there were no interracial relationships there, it would be racist, and if you said well it's "not for" minorities, it would be twice as bad. I think, especially with a show aimed at preteens and young teens, it's important to show racial equality without bias. That means interracial relationships, whether the show is "for" a particular race or not.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Why? because in a show with predominantly white characters, maybe one or two minority characters... if there were no interracial relationships there, it would be racist, and if you said well it's "not for" minorities, it would be twice as bad.

Saying that something is "not for" minorities is different than saying that something is "not for" a privileged group, though. Frankly, the privileged group can cope; they've gotten all the cake for this long. The minority group, on the other hand, has had to put up with things being "not for" them all the time for ages, and it's getting old. (Yes, this applies even to preteens and young teens; most of the kid shows and Disney movies they watched were centered on straight white people, usually with males as the active hero.)

Anyway, I'm not defending the show. From what I've seen in the comments, it's pretty awful to all races. I agree that it's good to have interracial relationships and to avoid stereotyping any race in fiction (and reality). But I was bothered by the "what about the white people?!" vibe of the secret.

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but it remains prejudiced. It's the same problem rabid feminists have, and rabid/crazy vegans (nothing against the sane feminists and the sane vegans); It can't be equal, it's gotta go one step further, and this group has to be better than the original group, and I'm fed up with it. It would be like me saying that I want to marry my girlfriend, but straight people shouldn't be allowed to get married, cause they get divorced all the time anyway.

Besides that, if it's "not for" the "privileged" group (I really hate that word in this context) then aim it at adults. Children should not have to deal with that bullshit. Children should not be raised to think "well, this is JUST FOR ME cause I'm black", it creates more segregation and more prejudice between races, believe it or not. If adults want to keep that bullshit up, go for it, but it's easy to make something where everyone feels a part: black, white, green, purple, polka dotted, etc. it doesn't have to be one single group. Sure, someone will find something offensive in EVERYTHING... even when there's nothing there... but for the most part, t's It teaches racism, prejudice, etc, at a grade 1 level. Vicious circle, etc.

Maybe I'm just pissed off because thats how my Indian cousin learned to basically avoid the fuck out of white people that weren't in his family, and because all my biracial cousins got shit from BOTH sides. Black/Chinese/Indian and White, ironically enough, MORE from the non-whites. Heh. Funny how that goes. But that's how it gets taught, and it's really fucking disgusting that it's still going on today.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Okay, if you really think that having a TV show aimed specifically at a given minority is "going too far" because it is equivalent to telling straight people that they're not allowed to get married, this isn't going to go anywhere.

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

No, I think it's upsetting when it's aimed at children. If you'd read my response, if adults want to do it, thats fine. I still think it's pathetic (as pathetic as a show 'aimed at white people' is...), especially when shows "aimed at black people" (apparantly) can be enjoyed by everyone, etc.

But a show, "aimed at *minority*" marketed to children, with shit like "only ever date people with the same skin color as you!" really pisses me off. For instance, Sinbad had a sitcom for awhile, and on one show, the little girl in it (neice I think) went to a little fashion show or whatever, one of those things country clubs put together... And she ran crying back to sinbad because she was told she wasn't pretty enough- her skin was too dark, it didn't match the 'paper bag'. They confronted this kind of issue, which is the kind of thing that a show like The Proud Family, aimed at kids, really should be doing... not black kids only ever dating black kids, and so on.

I think I should elaborate though, on my point- Yeah, I get racial humor, that's fine. But when a show is advocating the "stick to your own kind" type of thing, whether with relationships or just friendships, it's absolutely horrendous. I'm guessing you misunderstood because I didn't elaborate. Sorry about that. (Also, my analogy appeared to make more sense along the crazy/rabid vegan/feminist line of thinking now that I reread it)

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Well, if this show specifically has had aesops saying "only ever date people with the same skin color as you!" I agree that's shitty and racist. But I don't think simply not having interracial relationships is the same as condemning them. Lots of people date within their own race. Saying that black people and black characters should date outside their own race to "set an example for the childrens" makes no sense.

I may have been a little hasty to jump into this argument, though, as like I said, I don't know the show itself; I just didn't like the tone of the secret. If the show really does advocate "stick to your own kind," then I agree that's awful. I just don't think having a primarily black cast and not having interracial relationships is the same as advocating a "stick to your own kind" approach.

123

[(Anonymous)]

Since when is marriage a right? Marriage is a stupid social institution that most of the times only brings poverty and despair.

Re: 123

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know, it's just like friendship! Having friends only brings frustration and hurt!

(Cue people picking on my metaphor because friendship isn't religious (and of course all marriage is religious and always has been)! It's not a contract! It's not official the way marriage is!)

Marriage may be a stupid social institution, in your opinion, but it's one everybody has a right to, and it's been around a whole lot longer than our current governments, religions, and cultures.

Re: 123

[(Anonymous)]

Marriage shouldn't be an institution sanctioned by the government. Get rid of it and make it merely social terminology rather than law-based terminology.

And you can separate from your friends without giving them half of your belongings.

Re: 123

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

There's an entire branch of government (the judiciary) devoted to settling legal contracts between people. Maybe marriage needs to be reformed, but why is it so special that it alone among legal contracts should be exempted from government recognition?

Re: 123

[(Anonymous)]

Marriage serves no real purpose.

Re: 123

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Hm.

I know there's a name for this kind of logical fallacy. You have no actual response to an argument, so instead you whip an opinion out of your ass and present it as (non-sequitur, even!) fact?

Anyone know what the term for that is?

Re: 123

[(Anonymous)]

Just to be clear: are you actively trying to get civil marriage abolished in the US? Hell, have you ever mentioned the 'purposeless' of marriage outside of discussions about same-sex marriage?

Re: 123

[xenoglossy]

I am so sick of the people who go "lol I don't support same-sex marriage because I don't support marriage in general." You think it's meaningless, fine, don't get married. But don't tell me I shouldn't be allowed to, because hey, maybe it does mean something to me. That probably makes me an idiot in your opinion, but I don't really care.

Re: 123

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

It also delivers specific government aid and financial rights to help support the family unit, whether it's just the husband/wife, wife/wife, or husband/husband, or them and a kid or two or three, whatever. It's also a cultural aspect, but for the most part, the most important thing to the LAW is what it denotes to the government that you and your partner are allowed to have, the taxes you have to pay, and various other socio-economic important things that I'm sure are also just 'stupid social institution that don't matter'.

Re: 123

[(Anonymous)]

I understand. But I also don't really care about such things myself. I don't support Amendment 8, I just find the "benefits" too small to be worth fighting for.

Re: 123

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

That's hilarious. They aren't small benefits at all, you know, besides being socially seen as equal by our fellow humans, but being able to have access to government services for spouses, not 'life partners'.

But I'm guessing you're not gay, so it really WOULDN'T matter to you,

Re: 123

[(Anonymous)]

You could easily fight for the benefits without fighting for marriage, though. That makes your point about "fighting for the benefits" kinda incongruent.

I'm gay, actually. Thank you very much for telling me what should matter to me and what should not.

Re: 123

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

How you can be gay and not see being thought of as someone that should be swept under the rug rather than seen as a normal and contributing member of society as a hurtful and very terrible thing honestly confuses me.

Re: 123

[mekosuchinae.livejournal.com]

And obviously since it isn't important to you, that means it's ridiculous for anyone else to want to fight for it.

Re: 123

[andmydog.livejournal.com]

Marriage is a stupid social institution that most of the times only brings poverty and despair.

The right to get married - however you feel about marriage - isn't the issue here. Prop 8 sets a precedent for legislating morality to take away rights from a minority group. Any rights. We've got enough racism and bullshit oppression going on in this country right now anyway, even in lolLiberal California - ask anybody named Abdul or Jose just how awesome their American Dream is - and Prop 8 is the first step to sanctioning that shit. It puts oppression into the Constitution. Yeah, this time it's marriage for us queers. But what'll it be next time?

You think marriage is stupid, then don't get married, but don't you fucking dare belittle the situation here because of that.