[ SECRET POST #4862 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4862 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 24 secrets from Secret Submission Post #696.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Personally, if I wanted to post a continuation of an abandoned fic, I wouldn’t ask the writer. I’d do it, post it, link to the fic it was a continuation of, and then post a comment on the original work, complimenting it and explaining that I’d been so captivated and inspired by the story that I’d written my own continuation.

That way, the author knows it exists, but doesn’t have to feel involved in any way. They have nothing to do with it.

I wouldn't ask permission because 1. I don't need it, and 2. the author may feel that by giving permission they're putting their seal of approval on it, which may be uncomfortable for them since they may dislike what the continuation does with their story and not want to be seen as validating it.

[(Anonymous)]

You do realize that's a huge dick move right?
You do need permission because it's not your fic to finish, you're stealing it, and their right to finish it themselves. They might have the ending editing and read to post the next day, but you didn't even bother to ask if they had any intention come back to it or whatever. Don't pretend that you're doing them a favour, you're not.

[(Anonymous)]

Congratulations, pissy author! Someone wrote fanfiction of your fanfiction. You've finally made it!

(In other words, unless you asked permission from the people who created the characters/world you're writing half-finished fic about, it's pretty damned tone-deaf of you to expect that courtesy from others.)

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Congratulations, pissy reader! Someone didn't finish a fic you liked! Now you're bitter as fuck!

Yeah, no. I don't even write fic, I'm just not that great of an asshole to take over something someone else put a lot of hard work into. Not asking and pretending you're doing them a favour is just delusional, they don't ask because they don't want the author to say no. Maybe because it sucks to put all that effort into something just to have someone else take that away?

[(Anonymous)]

Wow. You probably shouldn't consume fanworks at all, in that case.

Turns out, it's all based on something someone else put a lot of hard work into and none of the authors or artists asked permission first.

[(Anonymous)]

unless you asked permission from the people who created the characters/world you're writing half-finished fic about, it's pretty damned tone-deaf of you to expect that courtesy from others.

It really is strikingly tone-deaf, isn't it?

AYRT is the GRRM or Diana Gabaldon of fanfic. How dare someone else get their sticky fingers all over AYRT's property!!!

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

This depends on what kind of fic it was. If it was an AU that the author had built a world around, then it's a much bigger dick move to take that world and write fic of your own in it without permission. Many of those elements are original to the author of the fic.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT - This is so hypocritical though. I mean, unless you think all fanfic is a "dick move."

[(Anonymous)]

I have written literally a million words in a crossover AU I have been writing for years. Occasionally someone asks if they can use my setup. I *say* "Sure, go ahead." I *think* "Eeee, someone wants to use my setup! Also... it's fanfic! Why would I say no??"

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get how it's much different than people who write fics that are 'inspired' by other fics... I mean, with fanfic we're all stealing something.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

That's fair. Like the way I see it, writing something inspired by a fic is more of an homage I would think, honestly I don't come across a lot of fics like that, but I would assume it would be set in the same universe rather than just posting a fic about how a certain work should end. I that makes sense.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of authors who have abandoned their fics say so in the summary. Personally, if the author had not announce their fic as either abandoned or nltbf, I would contact them to ask if it was abandoned/nltbf. If they said they were still working on it, I would hold off on posting my own continuation until they'd finished (or until another year or so had gone by and there still wasn't an update). I'd do that as a courtesy, because it's nice. However, I would also defend anyone who didn't do that, because frankly, they don't need to.

Like, you do get that we're writing fanfic, right? Because you're coming off pretty darn hypocritical here, and you don't really have a leg to stand on.

Don't pretend that you're doing them a favour, you're not.

I mean, pretty sure most people would rather know there was a continuation of their work out there than not know. So I guess in the mildest possible terms, telling them is doing them a favor. I wouldn't really frame it that way, though. I'd frame it as a basic courtesy.

Other than that, I can't see how I implied I was doing them a favor?

But since I'd post the fic whether they "gave me permission" or not, it certainly wouldn't be doing them any favors to come on all fake like their answer was actually going to dictate my actions.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

You are much better with words than me, but yeah this is basically what I'm trying to say.
If a fic is stated to be abandoned/discontinued, honestly I would still ask to see if they'd give me a response, but I get why people wouldn't. The point I'm trying to make is that it's very rude not to do something as simple as sending someone a message and respecting their answer.

It is fanfiction, but it is still something someone worked hard on to make, it's their story to finish or leave unfinished if that's what they want. It's not the same as writing fanfic for a published story because we're all on the same level here. If someone wants to finish a fic for someone, I imagine it's because they liked it to the point they want to see it finished, so I don't see why they wouldn't offer that courtesy to the author and respect their answer.
This is not people making fanfiction of fanfiction, it's taking over some elses story and finishing it for them. This is about the common decency of asking first. That's all.

When I said, "Don't pretend you're doing them a favour," I was referring to the anon I was replying to said this:

the author may feel that by giving permission they're putting their seal of approval on it, which may be uncomfortable for them since they may dislike what the continuation does with their story and not want to be seen as validating it.

I pointed out that it was rude as hell to not ask for permission before posting the ending to someone else's fic. The only thing that tops that is posting it anyways when the author told you not to, because it is. It's a shitty thing to do, just because people do it doesn't change that fact.

[(Anonymous)]

OK, I am the AYRT, and I'm not really sure why you're agreeing with me here, when we clearly disagree.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's very rude not to do something as simple as sending someone a message and respecting their answer.

And I strongly disagree. I do think it's polite to find out whether a fic author is still actively planning on finishing their fic, and I do personally think the polite thing to do - if they are actively working towards finishing it - is to wait. But I also don't think anyone is obligated to do so. If someone wants to jump in and write their own ending to a fic that is actively being written, it is completely their choice to do so. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to creating works based on another text, the same basic standards of regulation apply to fanfic as apply to original fic.

Furthermore, the very reason I wouldn't ask an author if it was okay for me to post a continuation is because I don't require their blessing. They don't have the right to dictate whether others create works based on their work. As far as I'm concerned, by attempting to control what other people do, when they don't have the right to control what other people do, they are the one being unreasonable and, yes, a little bit rude.

[(Anonymous)]

da

Personally, the thing that would piss me off would be the person posting their fic as a continuation of mine. It's not. That implies that they were authorized, that there's an actual throughline and that they've written the official ending to my story.

Write a fic using my ideas as a springboard, write your own spin on my ideas, write something picking up where I left off, that's all fine. Just call it a fic inspired by mine/an AU of mine, or leave me out entirely. Don't imply I handed you the reins, any more than you would imply your fic is a continuation of a canon.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Is. SPARTAAAAA! Fandom.

Plagiarism in fandom is either:
1. Tracing or directly copying someone else's artwork, in cases of fanart.
2. Directly lifting chunks of text verbatim, or very minimally paraphrased, in terms of fanfiction.

That's it.

We are in fandom. We are all playing in everyone else's sandbox. This is giving me flashbacks to when Cassandra Claire accused Aja of stealing the "spirit" of her fic because they both wrote an angsty Draco/Harry story at the same time. If you don't like that someone continued your fic, put a note on your page to say "hey, this person did this, but just so everyone knows it's not officially linked to my own fic." That's the most you should be doing. You don't have to like it, but you can't stop it. That's what fandom is. You own nothing. You agreed to that when you decided to participate.

[(Anonymous)]

Fucking THIS! Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

+1
After all, it's fanfic. Or in this case, fanfic of a fanfic. No fanfic writer would inform the canon author if they posted a continuation fic of the original story.

[(Anonymous)]

It's still something someone put a lot of hard work in, it's not the same thing as writing fanfic about a show since in fanfic we're all doing this for fun, we're all on the same level. You're not just writing it for yourself, you're going out of your way to post it for everyone to see without the authors consent. It's a shitty and arrogant thing to do.

[(Anonymous)]

It honestly sounds like you have some sort of an inferiority complex about writing fanfiction.

[(Anonymous)]

No fanfic writer would inform the canon author if they posted a continuation fic of the original story.

Exactly. In fact, creators routinely request that people not make them interact with fanfic in any way, because it creates all sorts of potential conflicts for them. Is their future work going to be influenced by it? Will people think their future work was influenced by it? If they praise it, will that be viewed as endorsing it? If they don't praise it, will that be viewed as snobbery and punching down?

It's better just to leave the creator out of it (unless they request otherwise), so they don't get tangled up in something that isn't their business or their problem.

The only way it makes sense to ask the creator for permission is if you genuinely intend to heed them if they say no. In which case, cool, that's 100% the choice of the person who has written the continuation. I wouldn't ask, because once I'd decided to post it, the author denying me their blessing wouldn't hold much weight, so asking would be disingenuous.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh. That's the sort of thing I would seek permission for, or look for a Blanket Permission Statement.

I mean, you could make the argument that podfic and translations don't need permission either, but it is very much the community norm to get it, to avoid ruffling feathers.

Because some people do feel weird and invaded when that sort of thing happens. (And some people feel flattered. Blanket Permission Statements really are a wonderful invention.)

[(Anonymous)]

some people do feel weird and invaded when that sort of thing happens.

I get what you're saying. I truly do. But the thing is, some writers of original, published content also feel weird and invaded when people write fanfic based on their work (just read some of the shit Diana Gabaldon has said about fanfic writers, if you haven't already). Just because they have feelings, doesn't give those feelings primacy.

If I have feelings about something, but my feelings - if catered to - infringe on other people's rights...then it's my feelings which are in the wrong. I have one WIP I'm working on right now, and posting fairly regularly, and as much as I'd find it annoying and insensitive if someone started writing their own version of where my story was going, and posting it at the same time as I'm posting my own updates, I wouldn't hassle them about it, because it's not my business how they apply their imagination to work I chose to publicly share.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I have read Gabaldon's diatribe, and a few others.

I mean, this discussion - whether fan creators should be treated the same or differently than canon creators - has been around for years. And OP, and everything in this thread, shows that there's still meat on that bone.

But right now the community norm for people who regularly do closely inspired work, like podfic or translation - or continuing an abandoned story - is to seek permission from the member of their community who created whatever work they're springing off.

So... I think the person who asked OP permission was acting with decorum and propriety. If OP doesn't want them to do that, they can just say No. That's what asking permission means.

It's OP's offense at even being asked that comes across as ridiculous and overdone to me.

[(Anonymous)]

As a writer with my share of WIPs, some of which I fully intend to finish and some of which I know I never will... I MUCH prefer your approach.

Asking permission is weird and would put me in a weird permission. A comment saying 'I loved this so much I couldn't stop thinking about it, here's what I think might have happened'? Fanfic of my fanfic? That's cool. And if I don't like it, all I have to do is... not say anything about it.

I've written fanfic-of-fanfic, just for myself. It wasn't even a WIP, just that someone wrote a great pre-relationship fic for one of my VERY rare rarepairs, and I couldn't stop thinking about what they'd do next once one character discovered the other's interest. I probably won't post it, just because it's more of a thing I go back to over and over again and mentally re-write for comfort, and less a thing that I think has a 'finished' state.