[ SECRET POST #4862 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4862 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 24 secrets from Secret Submission Post #696.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

You do realize that's a huge dick move right?
You do need permission because it's not your fic to finish, you're stealing it, and their right to finish it themselves. They might have the ending editing and read to post the next day, but you didn't even bother to ask if they had any intention come back to it or whatever. Don't pretend that you're doing them a favour, you're not.

[(Anonymous)]

Congratulations, pissy author! Someone wrote fanfiction of your fanfiction. You've finally made it!

(In other words, unless you asked permission from the people who created the characters/world you're writing half-finished fic about, it's pretty damned tone-deaf of you to expect that courtesy from others.)

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Congratulations, pissy reader! Someone didn't finish a fic you liked! Now you're bitter as fuck!

Yeah, no. I don't even write fic, I'm just not that great of an asshole to take over something someone else put a lot of hard work into. Not asking and pretending you're doing them a favour is just delusional, they don't ask because they don't want the author to say no. Maybe because it sucks to put all that effort into something just to have someone else take that away?

[(Anonymous)]

Wow. You probably shouldn't consume fanworks at all, in that case.

Turns out, it's all based on something someone else put a lot of hard work into and none of the authors or artists asked permission first.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Dude. Those are two completely different things, clearly. Deflecting does nothing to prove your argument. Give me one reason that someone shouldn't ask before posting the ending someone elses fic for kudos and comments. Write it for yourself if you can't stand to see it unfinished, but ask for permission before you post it. Common decency. Say it with me, maybe you'll get it this time.

[(Anonymous)]

How is it different? As long as the second author doesn't claim the original fic as their work and gives credit to the original author, how is it any different from writing a fanfic of an original property? (Legitimately asking for your viewpoint, not trying to be a jerk.)

[(Anonymous)]

MTE. It's so weird to me that AYRT thinks fanfic based on fanfic should be held to different regulatory standards than fanfic based on original fiction. Like, no?

[(Anonymous)]

unless you asked permission from the people who created the characters/world you're writing half-finished fic about, it's pretty damned tone-deaf of you to expect that courtesy from others.

It really is strikingly tone-deaf, isn't it?

AYRT is the GRRM or Diana Gabaldon of fanfic. How dare someone else get their sticky fingers all over AYRT's property!!!

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

This depends on what kind of fic it was. If it was an AU that the author had built a world around, then it's a much bigger dick move to take that world and write fic of your own in it without permission. Many of those elements are original to the author of the fic.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT - This is so hypocritical though. I mean, unless you think all fanfic is a "dick move."

[(Anonymous)]

I have written literally a million words in a crossover AU I have been writing for years. Occasionally someone asks if they can use my setup. I *say* "Sure, go ahead." I *think* "Eeee, someone wants to use my setup! Also... it's fanfic! Why would I say no??"

[(Anonymous)]

*High-fives you on your fanfic prolificacy and success*

*high-fives you again for not expecting different ethical standards for your writing as you do for other people's*

Seriously, though, a million words, jfc! Congrats on writing something that inspires other people to want to play around with it, that's a great accomplishment.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you! It's partly id-fic and partly sheer nonsense, and I have had so much fun writing it that I am just flattered as hell at the idea someone else wants to play with it, too.

Also, it's fanfic, so I would just feel ridiculous about telling someone they can't do a transformative work of my transformative work. The times it's happened, the other author and I have just agreed that their version is its own separate AU so we don't step on each other's ideas. Both fandoms in the crossover are kind of slowing down so I think it's all drawing to a conclusion, but it was so cool when it was hopping!

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get how it's much different than people who write fics that are 'inspired' by other fics... I mean, with fanfic we're all stealing something.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

That's fair. Like the way I see it, writing something inspired by a fic is more of an homage I would think, honestly I don't come across a lot of fics like that, but I would assume it would be set in the same universe rather than just posting a fic about how a certain work should end. I that makes sense.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of authors who have abandoned their fics say so in the summary. Personally, if the author had not announce their fic as either abandoned or nltbf, I would contact them to ask if it was abandoned/nltbf. If they said they were still working on it, I would hold off on posting my own continuation until they'd finished (or until another year or so had gone by and there still wasn't an update). I'd do that as a courtesy, because it's nice. However, I would also defend anyone who didn't do that, because frankly, they don't need to.

Like, you do get that we're writing fanfic, right? Because you're coming off pretty darn hypocritical here, and you don't really have a leg to stand on.

Don't pretend that you're doing them a favour, you're not.

I mean, pretty sure most people would rather know there was a continuation of their work out there than not know. So I guess in the mildest possible terms, telling them is doing them a favor. I wouldn't really frame it that way, though. I'd frame it as a basic courtesy.

Other than that, I can't see how I implied I was doing them a favor?

But since I'd post the fic whether they "gave me permission" or not, it certainly wouldn't be doing them any favors to come on all fake like their answer was actually going to dictate my actions.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

You are much better with words than me, but yeah this is basically what I'm trying to say.
If a fic is stated to be abandoned/discontinued, honestly I would still ask to see if they'd give me a response, but I get why people wouldn't. The point I'm trying to make is that it's very rude not to do something as simple as sending someone a message and respecting their answer.

It is fanfiction, but it is still something someone worked hard on to make, it's their story to finish or leave unfinished if that's what they want. It's not the same as writing fanfic for a published story because we're all on the same level here. If someone wants to finish a fic for someone, I imagine it's because they liked it to the point they want to see it finished, so I don't see why they wouldn't offer that courtesy to the author and respect their answer.
This is not people making fanfiction of fanfiction, it's taking over some elses story and finishing it for them. This is about the common decency of asking first. That's all.

When I said, "Don't pretend you're doing them a favour," I was referring to the anon I was replying to said this:

the author may feel that by giving permission they're putting their seal of approval on it, which may be uncomfortable for them since they may dislike what the continuation does with their story and not want to be seen as validating it.

I pointed out that it was rude as hell to not ask for permission before posting the ending to someone else's fic. The only thing that tops that is posting it anyways when the author told you not to, because it is. It's a shitty thing to do, just because people do it doesn't change that fact.

[(Anonymous)]

OK, I am the AYRT, and I'm not really sure why you're agreeing with me here, when we clearly disagree.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's very rude not to do something as simple as sending someone a message and respecting their answer.

And I strongly disagree. I do think it's polite to find out whether a fic author is still actively planning on finishing their fic, and I do personally think the polite thing to do - if they are actively working towards finishing it - is to wait. But I also don't think anyone is obligated to do so. If someone wants to jump in and write their own ending to a fic that is actively being written, it is completely their choice to do so. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to creating works based on another text, the same basic standards of regulation apply to fanfic as apply to original fic.

Furthermore, the very reason I wouldn't ask an author if it was okay for me to post a continuation is because I don't require their blessing. They don't have the right to dictate whether others create works based on their work. As far as I'm concerned, by attempting to control what other people do, when they don't have the right to control what other people do, they are the one being unreasonable and, yes, a little bit rude.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

So you acknowledge that it's polite to ask, but you don't see how it can be considered rude when you don't? Just because you're not obligated to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's about respecting the work you liked well enough that you want to see it finished.

Walking all over a persons work for any reason is a shitty thing to do, and that's what you're doing when you ignore their request not to post it. Yeah you're not gonna die if you don't ask, but denying that it isn't rude because you have a different standard is ridiculous. It's about the authors standard, if they care if you finish their work or not. That's why you ask.

They are doing this for fun, sharing their work for people to enjoy. So going over their head and behind their back because you want to share something that isn't yours to share only because you're arrogant enough to believe they shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on what you do with their work, is in fact fucking rude.
Why do you even need to post it? Seriously? Write it for yourself all you want, but where's the need to share it, especially if the author doesn't want it to be?

[(Anonymous)]

So you acknowledge that it's polite to ask, but you don't see how it can be considered rude when you don't?

If you know the work is abandoned, then I think it's completely fine and not at all rude if you don't ask the author's permission. If they might still be working on it, then I do think it's polite to ask, and that it's a bit insensitive to post your continuation if they're still actively posting their own.

But rude and verboten are not the same thing. Just because someone's behavior is a little rude, doesn't mean they should be forbidden from doing what they're doing.

Someone could swoop in tomorrow and start writing their own continuation of my WIP, and I'd have no right to stop them. I'd probably side-eye them a bit for stepping on my toes, but the bottom line is, they'd be completely within their rights, and I'd be a huge hypocrite if I tried to stop them, given that I'm here to write fanfic.

Walking all over a persons work for any reason is a shitty thing to do, and that's what you're doing when you ignore their request not to post it.

Asserting that you, as a creator, have control over what consumers of your work do, when you don't have control over what consumers of your work do, is shitty behavior, and that's what you're doing when you attempt to deny someone's right to write their own fanfic based on yours.

[(Anonymous)]

da

Personally, the thing that would piss me off would be the person posting their fic as a continuation of mine. It's not. That implies that they were authorized, that there's an actual throughline and that they've written the official ending to my story.

Write a fic using my ideas as a springboard, write your own spin on my ideas, write something picking up where I left off, that's all fine. Just call it a fic inspired by mine/an AU of mine, or leave me out entirely. Don't imply I handed you the reins, any more than you would imply your fic is a continuation of a canon.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't imply I handed you the reins, any more than you would imply your fic is a continuation of a canon.

Nobody in fandom is claiming their fic is an official continuation of canon. So this statement doesn't really make sense. Plenty of people in fandom are writing fics that are attempts to imagine what a continuation of canon might look like, or what they'd like it to look like. So again, your statement doesn't really make sense.

Bottom line, if it were me, I would make sure to include in the AN that my continuation was entirely of my own invention, and was not created by or endorsed by the author of the original fic. And I do think it's probably a good policy for everyone writing a continuation of an abandoned fic to do that. Unless the author has voluntarily given them permission to tout the continuation as the "official" continuation of the story - but I doubt there are many fic writers who would do that.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody in fandom is claiming their fic is an official continuation of canon.

That is literally exactly my point. No one in fandom would claim their fic is an official continuation of canon. People do claim their fic is an official continuation of other people's fic, which is obnoxious in a way that just writing something that uses someone else's fic as a springboard isn't.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Is. SPARTAAAAA! Fandom.

Plagiarism in fandom is either:
1. Tracing or directly copying someone else's artwork, in cases of fanart.
2. Directly lifting chunks of text verbatim, or very minimally paraphrased, in terms of fanfiction.

That's it.

We are in fandom. We are all playing in everyone else's sandbox. This is giving me flashbacks to when Cassandra Claire accused Aja of stealing the "spirit" of her fic because they both wrote an angsty Draco/Harry story at the same time. If you don't like that someone continued your fic, put a note on your page to say "hey, this person did this, but just so everyone knows it's not officially linked to my own fic." That's the most you should be doing. You don't have to like it, but you can't stop it. That's what fandom is. You own nothing. You agreed to that when you decided to participate.

[(Anonymous)]

Fucking THIS! Thank you!