fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #720 ]

[ SECRET POST #720 ]

⌈ Secret Post #720 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

[Morning Musume]

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102.

[Anastasia]

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103.

[Johnathan Larson]

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104.

[Hana Yori Dango / Twilight]

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105.

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106.

[Johnny Yong Bosch, Vic whatever]

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107.

[X-Men Origins, Gambit]

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108.

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109.

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110.

[Life]

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111.

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112.

[AFK FOREVER]

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113.

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114.

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115.

[Linebarrels of Iron/Kurogane no Linebarrels]

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116.

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117.

[Hellsing]

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118.

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119.

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120.

[Gurren Lagann]

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121.

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122.

[Britannia High]

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123.

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124.

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125.

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126.

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127.

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128.

[The Christmas Toy]

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129.

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130.

[MST3K, Joel Hodgson]

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131.

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132.

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133.

[Persona 4]

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134.

[Naruto]

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135.

[Ansem Retort]

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136.

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137.

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138.

[Transformers G1]

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139.

[Persona 4]

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140.

[TWilight]

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141.

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142.

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143.

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144.

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145.

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146.

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147.

[Lost]

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148.

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149.

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150.

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151.

[Misha Collins]

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152.

[Ranma 1/2]

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153.

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154.

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155.

[Torchwood]

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156.

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157. [removed]

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158.

[The Divine Comedy / Devil May Cry]

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159.

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160.

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161.

[Supernatural]

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162.

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163.

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164.

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165.

[Supernatural]

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166.

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167.

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168.

[6Teen; Jude]

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169.

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170.

[Phantom of the Opera]

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171.

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172.

[Lipstick Jungle]

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173.

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174.

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175.

Notes:

Early 'cause Christmas stuff to do!

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #103.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Shouldn't be everyone's squick?!

No, actually. I don't know any incest fan who actually practice or want to practice incest in real life. I also don't feel that consentual, non-reproductive incest between adults (such as Sam/Dean, though I don't watch SPN) should be illegal. What's wrong with two people loving each other? I am, of course, referring here to consentual incest, not father/daddy manipulative weird shit. But if you don't agree, that's totally fine. I think BDSM is creepy and weird and don't get it, but I'm never going say someone else shouldn't be able to enjoy it. Hell, I think furries are by far the freakiest fetish out there and yet as long as they don't force me/trick me to read/look at their stuff, they can do whatever they want.

So long as no one in the real world is being hurt from it, I fail to see how fictional incest about fictional characters is really wrong. If you don't like it, don't read it. (I realize that it's got to be hard being in a fandom like SPN where it's really a war on incest vs. non-incest, and Sam/Dean vs. Any Other Pairing, but that's true of most fandoms with a main pairing and minor pairings, regardless of the incest issues.)

Anyway. I'm probably not going to change your view. I just think it's hilarious that you write the word incest so big every time you post it. It makes me smile.

I'm also sad I don't have any incest icons to post with, so you'll have to make do with the hot sisters from Pushing Daisies who should be lovers.

You can attempt with your ridiculously long comment to rectify your stance on , but at the end of the day, it's still two people who are related, as in the same parents, as in siblings, doing the dirty. This isn't about judging someone for their fetishes.

This is , and if you don't see something wrong with that, then I do believe there's something wrong with you.

Seriously, it's . I shouldn't even have to argue this.

LOL. I feel like you're trying to save SPN fandom from its supposedly hellbound fate via large font! DON'T WORRY BB YOU'LL SAVE THEM ONE PIXEL AT A TIME!

Nah, they can go to hell for all I care. I'll probably see them there. I just fail to see how people can think is right. I thought perhaps putting in large font, Wincest supports might FINALLY get the hint that is not ok.

I just fail to see how people can think is right.

LOL. BB, they don't think it's right or okay! They think it's SEEEECKSSSSAAAAAY!

I should know! My hands are on fire right now! BUUURRRRNNNNN, BB, BUUUURRRRNNN.

LOL. BB, they don't think it's right or okay! They think it's SEEEECKSSSSAAAAAY!

What kind of excuse is that?!

"I KNOW IT'S WRONG. BUT IT IS SEXAYYY."

I bet Chris Hansen would sympathize with me right now.

Not an excuse; just stating what is. The of Sam/Dean is SEXAYYY so the fangirls fantasize about it. IF SAM HAD AN IGLOO ON HIS HEAD DO YOU THINK THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING?! B/C DEAN WOULD NEVER BE IN TRUUUU LUV WITH AN IGLOO!

Granted igloos are very alluring what with their alluring igloo-ness.

(no subject)

amphigory.livejournal.com - 2008-12-26 02:09 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2008-12-26 02:19 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

amphigory.livejournal.com - 2008-12-26 02:22 (UTC) - Expand

Chris Hansen would sympathize with you

Chris Hanssen on the other hand... He proudly proclaimed his love for horse cock (and has a page devoted to him on Encyclopedia Dramatica) in a public forum so I doubt incest would phase him

(no subject)

amphigory.livejournal.com - 2008-12-26 04:24 (UTC) - Expand

oh but they'll never get it, bb. they'll keep giving you the "ohh but what's wrong with 2 people loving each other" and all the other crappy standard speeches they think convince anyone.

What it is, exactly, about two people being in love and/or having sex that makes incest so bad? You can just keep saying "INCEST" in huge font, but I'm sorry, that's not an arguement.

Such a compelling arguement, thanks.

Yes, excuse me while I gather a compelling argument why sleeping with one's relatives just isn't right. Are you saying that if people you knew in real life, perhaps your good friend, were sleeping with her brother, you'd be ok with that? No judgment? No concerns? Just gung-ho about the whole tryst?

And from a biological standpoint, incestuous offspring increase the chance for birth defects to propagate. So should we ban heterosexual incest couples due to risk of having children with birth defects, and only allow homosexual incestuous couples? Or ban incestuous couples from having children?

Why stop at incest? Why should polygamy be a taboo subject? It's all love, right? Yeah, until you realize that incestuous and polygamous relationships are usually based off some form of societal or mental disorder.

And please don't try to liken this to gay rights; it's not the same thing at all.

Are you saying that if people you knew in real life, perhaps your good friend, were sleeping with her brother, you'd be ok with that? No judgment? No concerns? Just gung-ho about the whole tryst?

Depending on the individuals, if they both seemed happy about it, yeah, actually, I'd be cool with it. It's their fucking business and I'm not about to tell two happy people who are in a relationship that isn't troubled "OMG YOU CAN'T DO THAT IT MAKES ME ANGRYYYYYYYYYYY YOU'RE SICK EW."

And from a biological standpoint, incestuous offspring increase the chance for birth defects to propagate. So should we ban heterosexual incest couples due to risk of having children with birth defects, and only allow homosexual incestuous couples? Or ban incestuous couples from having children?

This whole paragraph has actually been scientifically proven to be bullshit, actually. Offspring that result from incest are only more likely to have birth defects when the parents have those defects dormant in their genetic makeup. They don't spring out of nowhere like people seem to think! Two unrelated heterosexuals who have a baby who have those same dormant genes are EQUALLY LIKELY to have a baby with a birth defect; it's just more likely for two people who are related to both have the makeup that passes it on. Because, you know, they're related and it's in their bloodline for that reason.

So basically, that whole worry is a crock.

Why should polygamy be a taboo subject?

It shouldn't. If you actually pulled your head out of your ass and looked at polygamous relationships outside of the fucked-up religious force-women-into-child-marriage bullshit examples you see on then news, you might actually be able to build your argument on something, you know. Solid.

Yeah, until you realize that incestuous and polygamous relationships are usually based off some form of societal or mental disorder.

And you pull this from... where, exactly?

And please don't try to liken this to gay rights; it's not the same thing at all.

Actually, yes. Yes, is. Do a little tiny bit of research, and your IQ might jump up a couple of degrees. At least enough to let you realize that abusing HTML just makes it so that people who are on your side wish that you'd shut up because you're making them ALL look like idiots.

And before anybody, including you, throws the God-book into this: read your Bible first, thanks. All those incestual and polygamous relationships in there? Whoo boy, weren't those encouraged by God! Unless, of course, it was a woman who wanted multiple husbands, because shit, it ain't right for property to be doin' that.

(no subject)

amphigory.livejournal.com - 2008-12-26 06:20 (UTC) - Expand

I see other people have replied, but I thought I would too. I have absolutely NOTHING against consenting adults who want to fuck each other. I wouldn't want them to reproduce due to the higher risk of birth defects, but I feel like that about ALL adults. I don't think two adults who have high genetic probability to produce ill children should be allowed to reproduce. I am also childfree, so. *shrugs* But that shouldn't be a reason for two consenting adults not to be allowed to be together.

I might raise an eyebrow if two people I knew who were related were together, but I know first cousins who are, and I just shrug at that. I'd think absolutely nothing of it if society hadn't raised me to think it was DIRTYBADWRONG. It might be unwise, but I don't think it's dirtybadwrong. I also don't think legalizing it would really make everyone marry their brother or sister, either.

I also have nothing against polygamy for people who all mutually agree on such a lifestyle. It isn't for me, but far be it from me to tell other people how to live their lives.

I don't recall trying to liken it to gay rights.

Here we go.

The problem with incest is that it severely fucks with the familial structure, reproductive or not. A family should NEVER be about romantic love.

Keep in mind here I'm not arguing for a mom, a dad, two kids, and a picket fence. When I say "a family" I mean a relative or a set of relatives acting as a familial structure.

I think it goes without saying that love and sex is both wonderful and dangerous. We all know how elating love and sex can be, but we also know how destructive it is, and how the trauma of a bad break up or a romantic episode gone wrong can stick with us forever, and change the way we act. Your family acts as a base where you should be guaranteed support and affection WITHOUT the uncertainties of love and romance. Have you ever had your heart broken so badly you want to die? Have you ever felt a dip in your self worth through sexual or romantic rejection? Imagine that it was done by your brother, or your father, or your mother. This person is an integral part of your family, someone you come home to day after day, and essentially someone you can never escape, as you are related to them not just through love or sex but by blood.

THAT is why incest is not okay.

Yeah, um, no. That's not a reason, sorry. Tons of people have nothing to do with their blood relatives. Parents disown their children, siblings grow apart or hate each other. Hell, siblings sometimes don't even know each other exist and meet decades later. Full or half-blood siblings grow up in separate houses, in different states. Cousins may never meet. Parents are under absolutely no obligation to love unconditionally, nor do kids always love their parents, nor do siblings always care about each other.

If a sister falls in love with her brother and then they "break up" it can be exactly like a "regualr" break up. Maybe it will be awkward because you have the same parent(s), but that is just one of the factors involved in starting a relationship with a family member. It's one of many risks present, just like all relationships have. (Does the white girl want to date the black man even though she might get shit from it from someone? Does the man want to admit he loves other men even though he might get killed for it? Does the 60 year old want to date the 30 year old because s/he might be in it for money and not love? Do you want to date someone at all because they might break your heart? What if they live across the world?)

Every relationship has different risks. That's not a reason not to do it.

It fully is a reason. Also, to clarify, I think I misspoke above. I don't mean "blood" literally - an adoptive parent or child is still a parent or child. My mistake.

I am more than aware that not all families stick together. Families are not under any obligation to stick together, but you can't deny that it is the ideal. Parents are under no obligation to love their children, but ideally, they should. Brothers are under no obligation to care about each other, but ideally, they should. True, this does not always happen, which is why I'm arguing for a negotiable family structure as opposed to the nuclear family of a mom, a dad, and two kids. I think we can agree that if a parent fails to play a nurturing role (ie being abusive or absent) it is a problem - you rarely hear of a child who is overjoyed that his or her parents don't love him or her. What's more, regardless of WHO is in your family, everyone needs a space where they can receive support free from romantic and sexual overtones which, though not always, can often be threatening when unwanted. Let's be honest, while sex and romance are fine and dandy, there is an element of the hunt to both. When it is introduced, trust changes - IE is your mom listening to your problems and helping you with your homework because she loves you as a daughter, or because she thinks your hot and wants to get in your pants? If it's the latter, can you ever look at your mom in the same way that you need to look at her?

Your argument is like stating that murders shouldn't happen, but since they do, they shouldn't be illegal.

The reason romantic/sexual relationships between family members are WAY more problematic, minimal risk or not, is because there are already relationship and power dynamics that are set in the family, more-so than the girl at school or the man across the world. Imagine growing up at sixteen, knowing that your dad has an eye on you, and is just waiting until you're eighteen to make a move. What if it's unreciprocated? True, you talk it over and nothing happens because your dad is a nice guy, but the fact remains that he is your dad, you are under his power, and such dynamics have a way of leaving a mark. Now you'll distance yourself from him so as not to lead him on, creating a rift in your family, or perhaps even grow scornful.

As an analogy, liken it to violence; getting into a fistfight with a kid at school is way different from getting into a fistfight with your mom. One of those things is generally socially acceptable, the other is abuse. This isn't because the law assumes your mom is stronger or that moms shouldn't have the capabilities for physical violence, but because SHE IS YOUR MOTHER, and what she does will impact you differently from what anyone else does. It's the same with sex: sex with someone from school is different from sex with your mom, no matter how consenting both parties are.

I'm not saying that incest cannot happen. It does all the time. What I'm saying is that it SHOULDN'T happen, as it is in no way compatible with our society. True, there are a lot of things about our society that are not at all fantastic, but the idea of a solid support base of relatives, blood or not, that will provide a safe place free of romantic and sexual interest really is something of value and worth.

Wait a minute -- Sam and Dean are RELATED? Wow. I never would have shipped them if I knew THAT. I feel cold inside now. The show really should have made it more clear that they are related, and then none of us would have shipped them because INCEST is illegal.

Your sarcasm indicates support for Shame.

What?! But I said I didn't know about the INCEST and I was sincerely grateful to you for telling me about it. I'm totally converted to porn between married couples and people who love each other in appropriate ways from now on. So, thanks.

is still wrong, however much you like joking about it, sorry.

Sigh. Who would joke about incest? And on Christmas? Isn't that, like, blasphemous? That's almost as bad as Angel Sex. In the Impala. Like, seriously, seriously bad.

Er, wait. Are you implying that I am arguing against incest from religious high ground? I scoff in your general direction.

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