[ SECRET POST #5116 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5116 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 10 secrets from Secret Submission Post #732.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/A4oKcZP.jpg

[feotakahari]

In general, I think fandom shouldn’t be a thing where you “purchase” fanfic or fanart by giving it likes or reblogs. The reader is under no obligation to interact, and the writer is under no obligation to continue writing. Either can sever the interaction as they see fit.

[(Anonymous)]

At the same time, writers/artists/creators should not rely on gushing interaction in order to continue/finish their work either.

[(Anonymous)]

I get where you're coming from, but at the same time, fandom is a machine that runs in large part on egoboos, and you can say it shouldn't but the fact is it does.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get all the drama either, anon.

[(Anonymous)]

It literally costs you nothing to give a positive sign to another person. Be it a click of a kudo or a simple 'good job' in a comment.

Its the same principle in the real world where a little kindness never hurts another person. Telling someone you like their shirt or helping someone pick up dropped books. You don't have to do it but when you do you brighten your own and the other's day.

[feotakahari]

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your specific statement here, but I think the people who talk about “emotional labor” would probably disagree. YMMV on whether you care what they think.

[(Anonymous)]

Its a sucky truth, but strangers on the internet still owe you nothing - whether or not its a nice thing to do.

[(Anonymous)]

True enough, but a lot of authors don't see it as 'a little kindness', they see it as their just rewards or 'payment' for deigning to share their work. It kind of stops being an act of kindness by default once the author starts demanding it as something that is theirs by right.

[(Anonymous)]

But I'm not going to give that positive sign if I think their fic is crap, because those particular signs mean "I think you did a good job," and I don't.

I don't give kudos unless I like the fic. I don't comment unless I like the fic (or it was written for me in an exchange, and having to say nice things about bad fic is why I now only write treats for exchanges).

I also don't just go up to someone and tell them I like their shirt when I think it's hideous. I might be nice to them in another way, but I'm not going to say "Nice shirt!" when I hate it.

And I'm not going to say "Good job!" about a fic when it's terrible.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't see how this is a controversial opinion. Nobody owes anybody anything. Just as the author isn't owed any kind of reward, the audience isn't owed any kind of reward for reacting to a work in any way. It's just something you just have to make peace with, no matter which side you're on, or you're going to have a bad time.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah I've noticed something has greatly changed since the 2000s/mid-2010s with this sort of attitude. I know that selling fan art isn't anything new, but the way people act like every thing you make in a fandom space has to be some kind of commodity (like the whole 'People need to write more representation in fanfics'- like no. No one needs to do shit in fandom spaces, especially when they're already being done for free and not directly in the entertainment industry like published books or coporate-owned media).

Like, yeah there have been people in fandoms who's heads got too big when they got popular and started to make demands - but you get this attitude more frequently including people who aren't that big.

[(Anonymous)]

Unfortunately the truth of fandom, and internet communities in general, is that no one owes anyone anything(unless money is involved). And this goes for both sides of the equation: readers aren't owed anything by writers, and writers aren't owed anything by readers, it's nice if the two meet and have an agreement of course, but that isn't the default and won't ever be honestly.

[(Anonymous)]

My fandom life got so much nicer when I started getting my enjoyment from writing the stories instead of of just constantly looking for feedback to make it seem worthwhile.

I'm just gonna write these stories anyway and if no one likes them, oh well, I had fun. And if someone leaves kudos or comments, it's an extra nice boost to my paltry self-esteem that I'll probably read over and over and get giddy over. But if not, still had fun.

[(Anonymous)]

This is the mindset I have been trying to build for my fanart!

[(Anonymous)]

I always try ti encourage authors if I more or less liked their fic or even just the tropes so that they continue to write and improve because I want more of my ships and favorite tropes and even just people to talk to.

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who reads a lot of fanfic and gives kudos but rarely comments, I do feel guilty about it, and I kind of think I deserve to feel guilty. (I'm not saying what anybody else should feel or should do; that isn't my business. I'm just talking about how I feel about my own actions.) I am very aware that I get a lot from fanfic writers and don't give much back.

That said, when I see content creators posting or reblogging posts complaining about lack of feedback, lack of reblogs, etc., I roll my eyes and ignore them.

Which is to say, imo fan works and feedback exist in a weird gray area, where on the one hand, giving feedback on things you enjoy is certainly the most thoughtful and equitable behavior, and is therefore kind of the ideal way of co-existing in fandom. But OTOH, pressuring/shaming others for feedback is overstepping and uncouth.

[killnotic]

I've never bought this attitude. Because even though some people think they don't owe creators positive feedback, that sure doesn't stop them from leaving negative feedback. To literally go out of their way and spew their opinions and feelings about a work, and think it's perfectly valid to get in the creator's face about it. Yet, positive engagement is too much to ask for? That's too needy? Too entitled?

Naw. Miss me with that.

Just say you don't want to. Just say it's too much effort. Say anything, except creators don't deserve your concern, or consideration, because that's kind of fucked up.

[meadowphoenix]

I think symbiotic relationships shouldn't take on the nature of obligation....but they are symbiotic. and fic has taken on the community aspects of fandom that makes the relationship between writer and audience very tight. are writers owed anything in general? no. have the unsaid rules of commenting on fic arisen because people like the type of fandom communities that encouragement produces (i.e. you can gain a relationships with the bigshots through commenting)? yes.

you don't have to do anything but the more closely policed a community is, the more the "rules" are in fact obligatory or you have to stop participating in certain aspects of the community if you don't follow them. most fandom communities aren't that policed tho.

[(Anonymous)]

Counterpoint: people putting tons of effort into whining about their precious fandom dying, while not putting a single ounce of effort into nurturing said fandom.

There's another secret in this thread that covers Don't Like, Don't Read. Maybe learn to embrace that, instead of making snooty comments about people putting their free time towards creating fanworks that aren't up to your standards.

Also, people are not making you a product. Products are something you do pay for. If you read/watched something to the very end, click the fucking kudos button. It's not gonna kill you.

[(Anonymous)]

Well yeah, obviously. That said, you don't need to be such an asshole about it. Someone expecting kudos is irritating and misguided, but there's nothing wrong with hoping for kudos and comments.

As for it being reserved for 'good product', uh... not really how it works in fandom. Most of the top 50 kudos on AO3 will usually be stories with mediocre writing, poor characterisation, but popular tropes or AUs.

[(Anonymous)]

I love… everything about this. What a perfect summation. You're a treasure OP.

[(Anonymous)]

That's nice, dear. Just make sure you never complain about the scarcity of fic or art in any of your fandoms, because writers and artists don't owe you anything either.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, no one's forcing you to give kudos or leave comments on things that you don't like? Every time I've seen a post encouraging people to kudos and comment, there's sort of been the unspoken assumption that they mean "kudos and comment if you like the thing." Which, again, isn't a requirement or anything, but it is nice and builds community within the fandom. It's nice not to just scream into the void sometimes lmao

[(Anonymous)]

You're absolutely fucking right and you should say it.