fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #742 ]

[ SECRET POST #742 ]

⌈ Secret Post #742 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Yuko Nakazawa]

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103.

[Ianto Jones, Torchwood]

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104.

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105.

[Jpopmusic.com forums, Morning Musume section]

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106.

[Boston Legal; Denny Crane]

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107.

[Trevor Moore, Whitest Kids U Know]

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108.

[Yes! Precure 5]

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109.

[Harry Potter/Tom Riddle]

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110.

[Billy Mayes infomercials]

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111.

[Pokémon]

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112.

[Super Mario Bros (live-action movie)]

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113.

[Sakura Card Captor/Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle]

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114.

[DBSK - Shim Changmin]

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115.

[NaruHina and IchiHime]

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116.

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117.

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118.

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119.

[Left 4 Dead]

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120.

[Never Mind the Buzzcocks]

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121.

[Spongebob Squarepants]

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122.

[Supernatural]

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123.

[Legend of the Seeker]

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124.

[Digimon Adventure 02]

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125.

[Metal Gear Solid]

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126.

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127.

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128.

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129.

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130.

[Morena Baccarin]

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131.

[Heroes]

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132.

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133.

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134.

[Digimon Adventure 02]

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135.

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136.

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137.

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138.

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139.

[Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits]

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140. http://i39.tinypic.com/2yucavo.jpg
[ only linked, just in case :| ]

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141.

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142.

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143.

[Vincent Vega - Pulp Fiction]

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144.

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145.

[Avatar]

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146.

[NCIS/Abby Sciuto]

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147.

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148.

[Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Fallout 3]

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149.

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150.

[The Zeta Project]

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151.

[Professor Layton]

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152.

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153.

[NCIS]

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154.

[House]

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155.

[Monty Python's Flying Circus, Eric Idle]

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156.

[Reservoir Dogs/The Piano]

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157.

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158.

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159.

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160.

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161.

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162.

[Supernatural, Misha Collins]

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163.

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164.

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165.

[The Curious Case of Benjamin Button]

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166.

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167.

[Gilmore Girls/Supernatural/Heroes]

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168.

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169.

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170.

[Brainiac Joe - Brainiac Science Abuse]

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171.

[John Constantine: Hellblazer]

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172.

[Doctor Who; Thandie Newton]

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173.

[Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro]

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174.

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175.

[Metal Gear Solid]

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176.

[Mike Rowe and Dave Barsky]

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177.

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178. [repeat]

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179.

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180.

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181.

[Catherine Tate, Doctor Who]

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182.

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183.

[Ghost in the Shell]

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184.

[House]

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185.

[Ice Age I & II]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #106.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Hey, Zuko made out good in that finale. He got to be fire lord, dad and sis out of the way, new friends and allies, a BFF in the Avatar, his uncle's love and forgiveness.

And he got a girl who sacrificed her safety for his and actually cares about him - scar, jerk behavior, and all.

Sounds to me like Zuko had it good to me and he behaved like an asshole to everyone who cared about him and consistently made messes of his life rather than fixing it for nearly 2.5 season.

But its all okay because he's Zuko and the fandom woobie.

God forbid that Aang have it good in the finale despite his actual attempt to give up Katara (in S2 - CoD), get shot in the back for it, treated like crap and made fun of by Zuko in TSR, and watch the girl who he loves give him mixed signals - (wanting to kiss him in CoTL, their hot dance in the Headband, kissing him back in DoBS).

Yup.

God forbid anyone think that maybe Aang and Mai who actually gave a shit about the people they were in love with are in fact better people than Katara and Zuko.

God forbid that you defend Aang and Mai without bashing Zuko.

Your attitude towards him is total shit and I hope nobody who's gone through actual abuse ever has the misfortunate of meeting you.

I am the victim of abuse.

And you either let it define who you are and use it as an excuse for your behavior and let it control you and let you hurt people or you rise above it and you make your life better.

God forbid anyone actually find fault in Zuko and how he handled things without someone going OMG!YOU BASHED ZUKO!YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE! YOU SUCK! YOU HATE ABUSED PEOPLE! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!

I've been where Zuko was. That's why I am hard on him. And that is why he frustrates me and why the fandom attitude towards him is frustrating as well.

Clearly we have very different perspectives about a similar experience and the best thing to do is end the conversation.

Perhaps.

But I will say this - I tend to get really upset with comments like the person above that seek to do nothing but tear down characters who clearly were never presented as how the commenter said.

I am usually not that harsh towards Zuko and loved his scenes in the finale and how he learned a lot.

But what I find sad with this fandom is that we are supposed to excuse Zuko's behavior because he was hurt but we don't excuse Aang's despite the fact he's suffered horrendous tragedy. Or Mai is made fun of, but I feel she was neglected emotionally by her parents and in her own way abused but because she is Zuko's beloved and not who the fandom would pick for him, she is to be ridiculed.

Perhaps I don't find Zuko so awful a character as I find the hypocrisy and the attitudes that put him so far above the other characters (who have lost and suffered terribly as well) awful. Even the reason pair him with Katara is awful - for healing purposes. Like he can't have happiness with anyone but someone who can fix him emotionally. And like Katara can't find happiness with anyone who isn't a brooding pile of goo.

Does that make sense? You don't have to answer, but I thought I'd clarify.

I don't think we're supposed to excuse Zuko's behaviour, and I don't think that Mai's problems are baseless. The thing is, I think that it's... not excuseable exactly, but really and incredibly understandable why he did what he did. I think the process he went through was very realistic, and I just hate it when fandom degrades him and says "well, he was so emo but then he got over it." It's like, no, he didn't get over being emo, he emancipated himself. I wanted to punch his face in a few times in the meanwhile, but he did it and I'm just sick to death of people treating him like he was just being a moody teenager - same as with Mai.

I don't put him so far above the other characters. I'm just hyper protective of him because I think that it's a disservice to boil him down to "lol emo woobie" and the fandom does it so often, so that was my knee-jerk reaction to you. He's not my favourite on the show, but I'm so tired of people rolling their eyes and going "emo" or else rushing in to woobify something they haven't even bothered to understand.

I don't know. Zuko wasn't supposed to make good decisions all the way through. You were supposed to hate him when he turned on Iroh. It just seems to sort of.. miss the point a little to try to "hold him accountable," so to speak, for shitty decisions that he's obviously trying to make up for. With the exception of Sokka, I think the whole cast has made bad decisions. Iroh led the siege on Ba Sing Se for Christ's sake, he was MORE complicit in the war than Zuko ever was, and I doubt I'll ever hear him get flak for that.

But that was the point of my initial post.

The commenter went out of their way to bash Aang and Mai with traits that aren't there and even insinuated that they were in no way shape or form better in some ways than Zuko and Katara.

And to me that mentality just smacks of the double standard that usually prevails when it comes to this fandom and Zuko, especially from Zutara supporters who I feel don't get the characters at all.

I was being sarcastic with my initial post. I don't like it when the fans dismiss Zuko as being "emo" or when they immediately woobify him. And that is one reason why I love him with Mai. She didn't woobify him. She wasn't out to heal his tortured soul. But she did love him, she did care for him and he reigned first in her heart, and she accepted him for who he was - flaws and all.

That was the message of all the canon ships - unconditional love looks past age, sex, status, background, etc.

Oh no, I think Iroh deserves grief for the war involvement. Which is why I liked Aang's decision not to kill Ozai. Because where to you draw the line at punishing people? If he had killed Ozai then by right he should have gone after Azula, the generals, the war ministers, Iroh, and even Zuko for the atrocities they committed on innocent civilians.

It seems like people are pretty against bashing both Aang and Mai in this thread--I know I am. I think all four of them make a lot of sense in what they do and why. Katara I think really is confused about her feelings for Aang, and Aang's just a boy who likes her and says so and can't understand what's going on in her head. His trying to kiss her was the wrong move and freaked her out but I didn't think either of their reactions showed anything bad about them. They're all people who suffered through truly bad things, sometimes that leads them to act badly, but ultimately they choose to help a lot of people. And often the thing they choose to do is the hardest thing *for them.* Mai developed her attitude to copy with her family, and then she has to declare her love for somebody. Aang doesn't like the pressure of being the Avatar, and he has to defeat the Fire Lord. Zuko wants to prove himself a good Fire Lord and a good son and he has to break with his father and side against him.

Eh, I am a bit protective of Aang. He is a great character who because he had the misfortune of falling for Katara and her falling for him, gets a lot of garbage heaped on him. He is not the way the commenter suggested he is and I've always found Aang to be one of the best things about Avatar.

I do not deny Zuko's journey and his goodness. Nor do I think that what he achieved and gained wasn't hard-earned and deserved, but their is a double standard when it comes to the fandom and Zuko and that is even more noticeable where Zutarians are concerned.

I just have always found it quite sad in this fandom that for someone to actually like Aang better than Zuko basically is a crime. Or to think that Aang is a better character is a crime. And the fact that this attitude is not only accepted but encouraged is part of why I have pulled away from a lot of the fandom.

You won't get any argument from me there that it's ridiculous to think it's wrong to like Aang better than Zuko--I've come across plenty of people who don't particularly like Zuko as a character or who like Aang better. Some people just find Zuko annoying until he redeems himself. There are also people who found his story more interesting but would say Aang was a better person. I'm glad I haven't had to listen to the people you've come across who hold that double standard--but I totally believe they exist. (Hell, I know there are people who argue that Aang just hasn't suffered anything--Aang whose entire race was wiped out.)

I also agree that he is in no way the way he was described in the post above--there's nothing selfish about his loving Katara or not killing Ozai. He felt like killing Ozai was wrong so explored other options even when everybody else was sure that was the only way. It was, imo, a wonderful way to honor the Air Bender culture who were wiped out. Aang didn't have to give up who he was or reject the values of his lost culture.

And the weird thing about putting him down in favor of Zuko is the whole show is about how great it is that they become friends--which mostly happens because Aang, like Iroh, is a really loving person. Which has a huge effect on Zuko--that's why he brings up Aang saying he thought they could be friends when he tries to join the gAang. Zuko has no interest in Katara romantically--and frankly if he did have any sort of interest he probably would have dismissed it because he was Aang's friend and he thinks Aang is awesome. Zuko seems to see himself as a tremendously asshole a lot of the time--he's embarassed for himself. In the end no matter what he's suffered that's what's worst about him--as I think gets said outright in The Beach! There's a reason he's matched with two people who are very forgiving--he's known for hurting most some of the people who love him most!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #742 ]

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