[ SECRET POST #5176 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5176 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 46 secrets from Secret Submission Post #741.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/BRXxhux.png

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm. That's how people rolled in the 1870s, though. Manifest Destiny and all that.

I also don't see any landowners in 2021 looking up which tribe lived on their property 150 years ago and signing over the deed to give it back, so...*shrug*.

The history of everywhere is people moving into other people's land, sometimes fighting for it and sometimes trading for it/the land is subject to a treaty. But it's a novel and not a history book either so, whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

There were people who denounced American policy towards settlement and treatment of natives in the 19th century. It's true that this is how most people in America felt and it is what actually happened. The history is what it is. But that doesn't mean that it was universally accepted at the time.

I think this kind of point of view is a pretty widespread way of simplifying history, and it's an ahistorical fantasy that presents the past as though ideas of justice or common humanity are newfangled wild inventions that some people came up with in the 1960s. And that's not at all accurate.

[sabotabby]

Hmm. That's how people rolled in the 1870s, though. Manifest Destiny and all that.

That's how (most) white people rolled in the 1870s, and now.

The "most people were racist in history" thing is always a fascinating statement to me, as it subtly implies that those they were racist against weren't...people?

[(Anonymous)]

Most people throughout history moved onto other pieces of land when their fields wouldn't yield crops or when their hunted animals were sparse.

They didn't really care if some other tribe was there first.

This is why many continents are littered with arrowheads and bones.

[(Anonymous)]

You do know that historically, it hasn't just been white people moving around and claiming other people's land for themselves, right?

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm. That's how people rolled in the 1870s, though. Manifest Destiny and all that.

Yep. And it was super racist. It was still racist even if modern day people don't personally make reparations. The history you speak of was full of racist acts. I guess I'm not sure what your point is.

[(Anonymous)]

My point is that I'm tired of people being surprised that older works are racist or sexist. Of course they are.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't have any siblings, cousins, kids, or blood relatives with kids, so if the Chumash want my, idk, 1/16th acre? I could leave it to whatever their governing body is. They'd probably get more use from selling it for the value of the land, though.

[(Anonymous)]

...and you're right, OP, if I wanted to leave my property to the locals, I'd have to talk to the Kumeyaay.

[(Anonymous)]

Weren’t those books autobiographical? Not that that makes the racism okay, but it’s what her dad actually said, right?

[(Anonymous)]

Fictionalized autobiography. Some details were changed, omitted, or embellished by Wilder and/or her daughter Rose Lane who acted as her editor. (In real life Laura was only about 3 during the events of LHotP, but in the book is about 6 or 7. The Little House books never mention Laura's brother who died in infancy, either.) The attitudes were real, though.

[erinptah]

Loosely autobiographical -- lots of details got fudged or streamlined to make a better narrative, and it's not like she remembered word-for-word conversations decades later -- but yeah, I'd be very surprised if those weren't her dad's actual views.

I think they'd still work for kids as a "learning about history in a more engaging way than just reading facts out of a textbook" thing...if they come with some explanation. Like, spell out what's actually going on that the characters are rationalizing or glossing over.

[tabaqui]

It was her mother, actually, that said that, and her father who defended the Native people and said that there was good in them.

Laura was fascinated by them, and wished she could 'go away' with them into the west, because she hated settling and loved being on the move in the wagon.

[(Anonymous)]

You might be interested in the book Prairie Fires by Caroline Fraser.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, i'm a teacher and so i went through my old books to add things to my classroom library and found my old copy of LHotP and skimmed through and it was so much worse than i was expecting. even as a kid, that "beautiful blonde mary vs ugly brunette laura" narrative really stuck with me

[(Anonymous)]

I remember "beautiful blond/ugly brunette" being such a common thing in children's books that I actually complained about it to the school librarian when I was a kid. She gave me a copy of Blue Willow, which was the first book I ever read where the blonde protagonist wishes she had beautiful dark hair like her friend.

[(Anonymous)]

I've never read these books, but your secret reminded me of a Dear America book I read when I was a kid about the Native American boarding schools. The boarding schools weren't presented as a bad thing and the worst was the MC feeling awful about getting her hair cut, but the other kids were okay and even said it was better to have shorter hair. Then I got to high school, learned how those kids were actually treated in those "schools", and was shocked that nobody had objected to it. The Dear America books usually did all right presenting the darker parts of history, but that book was just terrible.

[(Anonymous)]

That particular book; My Heart is on the Ground by Anne Rinaldi is actually extremely controversial and was pretty much disinherited by the Dear America franchise. It got a boatload of backlash when it was printed, so you can definitely say people objected to it.

[tabaqui]

Yes, it was racist, yes, Ma hated Indians, yes Pa thought it was better to 'use' the land then just let it lie fallow like the Indigenous people did.

It's a book of its time. I hated what Ma said and was super-angry at the Indians having to leave. Still love the books, and the story, and the people.

I was mad about Jack, too, but then - that's how people did. My ex SO's grandparents thought of animals as working parts of the farm, and didn't really treat them as pets, and while they weren't actively cruel or anything, it wasn't anything like how ex SO treats his dog, or we treated/treat the cats. Just...different mind-set, different times.

[meadowphoenix]

I think there's a difference between "these attitudes were of the times" and "this book presents these attitudes as natural, normal, and valid" and I think it does the latter. I mean, not to Dr. Seuss it, because the Wilder estate would never, but I think we can leave the people who love it with fond memories, but otherwise let it fade from prominent children's lit.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean... the books mention how important it was to have a dog for security reasons. In a country where you can't just go to the pet store or the animal shelter and get another one, it makes sense to take care of your dog because he's a valuable creature, right? So doesn't it make more sense (even from a more detached 'he's not a pet he's a working animal' point of view to maybe... not risk your dog drowning?

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't this the book where a black doctor comes to the Ingallses and saves them all from dying of malaria?

And not that Ma was right to be racist, but you can kind of see where she's coming from in scenes when she's left alone with her kids and local Indian men just walk into her house and take food away. That shit is chilling from her perspective.

[tabaqui]

Yes, Dr. M'Benga.

Ma was racist (and I could never figure out *why* she was so racist, except that she read and believed crazy stories about the Native people), and it sucked, but I still love the story/books, and can still be angry at Ma and the removal of the tribe(s).

[dantesspirit]

Are these books even still in print? And wasn't there a more recent, as in the last decade, biography written that essentially picked apart the stories in the books and revealed how they were embellished or colored by racism, bigorty, etc...

Or am I imaging that there was such a book...