[ SECRET POST #5208 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5208 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.



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02.


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03.
[Shoot 'Em Up (resized)]


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04.
[Banana Fish]


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05. [SPOILERS for Kids Baking Championship]



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06. [SPOILERS for Big Little Lies S2]
[WARNING for discussion of rape]



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07. [WARNING for discussion of suicide]

[ID: Invaded]


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08. [WARNING for discussion of rape]



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09. [WARNING for discussion of noncon (probably?)]
https://i.imgur.com/qhjWFCS.png
[image linked for above warning]























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #745.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

I think the general anti-anti opinion is that like... even if what you're saying is true, who cares? Seriously, I have never gotten a straight answer on this. Why is it bad, on some societal level, to be into gross shit?

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

SA

whoops, left the tws because I went on a rant about my own experience with an actual child molester and how so many people in fandom are hypocrites, but deleted it bc I decided it wasn't worth the fight lol

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

So two things

One, I think it is true that, to some extent, depictions of things in media influence societal mores and what we see as normal. There is some linkage - not a one-to-one linkage, but some chain of causality - between how things are depicted in the media we consume, and how we understand the world.

And two, I think even if there's not broad societal harm, people still have a right to feel revulsion towards certain topics and depictions of things, and to want not to be associated with them in any way. And in fact most people do feel revulsion towards things like pornographic depictions of fictional children.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

People have the right to feel repulsed. Nobody is denying that. People just don't have the right to tell others to kill themselves, threaten them, dox them etc. over FICTIONAL THINGS.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with that statement as far as it goes. But I think it also gets a lot trickier in practice.

For one thing, stuff like that - revolting behavior you see online - is not limited to any one group. I don't think that any of those things is unique to people described as antis. It's wrong in all situations, but I don't think it's limited to the antis.

And for another, I don't think that this is how the conversation in fandom actually goes. I don't think that the argument people make against antis is limited to just denouncing doxing / death threats / suicide encouragement, and nothing more. I think there's also a much broader argument about what content is and is not acceptable, how to define fandom and figure out different spaces that different people can be comfortable in, etc. And anyone who is critical of certain kinds of content can be described as an anti, whether or not they call themselves an anti, and then on the other hand you even have the proshippers who go pretty far the other direction. It feels like a bit of a motte-and-bailey fallacy: people can make broadranging arguments about fandom and content, but then when challenged on those arguments, they retreat to the motte that "well, surely everyone can agree that doxxing is wrong, and that's all we're saying!"

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

And anyone who is critical of certain kinds of content can be described as an anti, whether or not they call themselves an anti,...

Not in good faith, because what separated antis from the generations of critics were zero tolerance policies, block lists, and aggressive harassment.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, the whole "You can't criticise ANYTHING about fandom anymore without being labelled an anti" is a huge fucking strawman. The vast majority of proshippers don't actually do that. While antis (those who actually are antis) very often actively seek out things that bother them and try to bully those who don't agree with them into submission. That's what MAKES them antis.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

This

Especially when I've seen actual, looks-like-an-adult characters called "child-coded" because they aren't hypermasculine or busty as a porn model. If a female character is remotely not busty, because HEAVEN FUCKING FORBID women be FLAT, then she's ~*~*~*~*~child coded~*~*~*~*~ and same with scrawny boys sometimes!!!

It's especially egregious if the character is remotely disabled, and especially bad if there's even a WHIFF of autism.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, this is why anything -coded is becoming as useless a term as pedophilia itself. people are relying hard on shitty stereotypes to justify calling anything coded and it ends up in absolutely awful places. I don't even know wtf you're supposed to do with an adult character who is said to be child-coded. what does that mean? what are we supposed to do with that?

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I don't disagree with the first part, actually! There are definitely things normalized by media that are harmful (colorism, euro-centric beauty standards, etc.), but where I start to have a problem is that I believe that the impact of personal likes and dislikes isn't as broad or serious as antis would have you believe. I don't think that a person being into, say, a ship with a large age gap, has any sort of influence beyond their own immediate sphere with that like. And an anti would crucify them for some "greater good", when all they've actually done is hurt someone that's done literally nothing wrong.

people still have a right to feel revulsion towards certain topics and depictions of things, and to want not to be associated with them in any way

I absolutely agree with this as well! There are topics that revolt me, upset me, trigger me-- and topics that are popular within fandom, at that. However, I do not have the right to tell others that they're not allowed to enjoy them because of my own revulsion. It's on me to mute and block those topics. Hell, I'm not even saying you can't personally judge-- god knows I do. But the line must be drawn at attacking others.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Most people already know that relationships between adults and minors is risky business at best and actively traumatic at worst — including the people who make content of that. Japan, the US, and the UK will all prosecute adults for having sexual relationships with minors. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but I believe even romantic relationships are grounds for a case in one or more of the countries I listed.

As one example, underage prostitution in Japan is a marked issue... but if you go looking for it, the practice is often condemned even in hentai. In such works, the men pursuing such girls are portrayed as 1) ugly and bestial, with the girls are mindbroken beyond recognition, or 2) lonely and isolated, with no one else to turn to. Now granted, underage prostitution is a kink for a lot of people in Japan... but Japan is an extremely repressed country that has to wear a business suit and overwork itself into exhaustion day in and day out, so the temptation to throw all your responsibilities away for a taste of freedom is a strong one. Its sexual content is weird and taboo because it's an outlet, particularly for people who live vicariously through it instead of actually going out and seeking underage prostitutes. The people who are encouraged by fiction to go out and do abhorrent things are individuals who already couldn't differentiate between fiction and reality, which... is a community that overlaps significantly with antis.

Anyway, this tangent has gone on long enough already, but I'm fed up with people getting their knickers in a knot over cartoon — no, anime — characters while they remain blind to the exploitation of real children across the world, including in their own country.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

where I start to have a problem is that I believe that the impact of personal likes and dislikes isn't as broad or serious as antis would have you believe.

Agreed. The analogy I use is accusing someone of destroying the environment because they use aerosolized hairspray. Like...really? That's where you're drawing your moral line? My dude, you wear blue jeans. Do you know how bad for the environment the production of blue jeans is? But that's mostly moot, too, I don't care that you wear blue jeans. It's the big shit we ought to be looking at if we want to preserve the planet.

"You posted a Dead Dove fanfic on the internet, with the appropriate tags attached; your gross kinks are poisoning society," feels similarly ridiculous to, "You use aerosolized hairspray; you're poisoning the planet, how dare you."

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

And you know what, it's entirely possible to be critical of media and dislike media and not be an "anti."

(Which to remind the audience, the point of distinction between antis and critics is that antis explicitly took a zero-tolerance approach to being fans of something.)

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

Way too often people think that because they find something repulsive (which is fair!) that it's also dangerous. And if enough people feel that way, you get a moral panic on your hands.

If niche porn had that much influence, all the nsfw-loving furries would have made zoophilia completely socially acceptable. And step-siblings would be fucking like rabbits.

Lolicon, Satanism, rock music, comic books -- it's the same argument played out again and again, decade after decade. I wonder what'll be next.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

SA

How did I forget violent video games? God, that was a huge one and I'm not sure we're really over it.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't because some people are actively fighting it. Are you blind?

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

No? What's the hostility for?

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT - It doesn't because that's not how shit works, dumbass. You're just a pigeon in a Skinner box, doing a little spin before you peck the button because your tiny bird brain has somehow decided that's the secret to getting treats. Your delusions might be broadly inspired by real events, but that doesn't mean you're right.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

And people are actively fighting these things because EVERYONE KNOWS THESE THINGS AREN'T COOL IRL.

Re: tw: pedophilia, csa

[(Anonymous)]

+1

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's the mainstream-ness of anime and manga that's an issue. Kinda breaks my heart to see some light novels get incredibly high budget animation, marketing campaigns, and top tier VA talent get imported over, and find out that the story is pretty much porn about wanting to fuck your little sister. Or like in the case of GATE and multiple other light novelists, the writer loves to drop dog whistles about how much they love certain IRL genocides.

Being an anime fan incurs being disappointed by certain aspects that go into the creation of anime, whether it's the mangaka themselves, or maybe certain aspects of Japanese culture that are misogynistic and maybe affect depictions of female characters.

Except for the unfortunately common strain of anime fans who unironically love all the loli, ahegao pfps, and rape, and are responsible for the meme of a person with an anime pfp being 80% likely to call you a slur. 4channers, I guess?

Anime fandom has its certain discussion points. Don't normalize certain anime tropes. Dont be a weeaboo who thinks that all Japanese people love anime. Etc. I don't care what noncon happens in a fic on ao3, but it's different when it's a mainstream production. Like hello? No one wants to talk about all the rape and lolicon incest in a show that's not labeled as porn? This is the anime of the year material? This? We're giving money to this author?

Tl;dr, sorry for the rambling response. When mainstream shows say its cool to be into sniffing your little sister's undies, I'll complain a tiny bit. Western media fandoms doesn't have this problem so much.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like most of the "mainstream" anime you're talking about actually air late at night. Truly mainstream stuff is like Demon Slayer or One Piece or Pokemon. How well something's animated isn't necessarily indicative of how many people are expected to see it, and it's apparent popularity online isn't the best indicator either.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not denying those kinds of anime exist, because of course they do, but you are vastly overstating their popularity. Or simply running in the wrong circles, if that's all you're seeing.

Source: I've been a massive weeb for years and manage to avoid all that gross shit with absolutely zero effort.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

When mainstream shows say its cool to be into sniffing your little sister's undies

?????¿??????¿¿¿¿??

What the hell are you defining as mainstream here?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I think I understand the mistake you're making. Your exposure to anime where sniffing your little sister's underwear is equal to your exposure to anime about pirates looking for a mythical treasure or kids killing demons because all those anime can be accessed by you on Crunchyroll with the same amount of ease. In Japan, anime actually airs on TV on the channels and timeslots that are tailored to their intended audience. The amount of people who will seek an anime airing at 1 AM on a cable channel because it has loli siscon is MASSIVELY dwarfed by the amount of people who will watch Pokemon during the day on a weekend. When you make small talk, anime sometimes comes up, and nobody drops the titles of loli siscon anime. They ask if you've seen the new Kimetsu no Yaiba movie and if you remember Naruto and stuff like that. What you're saying is the anime equivalent of thinking porn you have to pay to watch on the internet is as mainstream as the MCU.