[ SECRET POST #5248 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5248 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 18 secrets from Secret Submission Post #751.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: What things have been annoying you lately?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree in theory (variety is better, redemption for everyone all the time is dull) but a writer calling a specific character irredeemable is a red flag for a lot of people nowadays because it does carry unfortunate implications. Do they mean irredeemable as in they will definitely not be redeemed as written? Fine. But do they mean from a realistic venue, this character as a person is too evil to even have the potential for redemption? Because that's not a thing, and it's a very closed-minded and authoritarian way of thinking to believe there's a point of no return for redemption potential.

In fiction, too, any character can be believably redeemed in a well-written AU. If the writer thinks that's OOC, I don't trust them.

Re: What things have been annoying you lately?

[(Anonymous)]

"But do they mean from a realistic venue, this character as a person is too evil to even have the potential for redemption? Because that's not a thing, and it's a very closed-minded and authoritarian way of thinking to believe there's a point of no return for redemption potential."

ehhhhhh i disagree. as nice as it is to believe that everyone has the potential to change, in reality that simply isn't true. there are plenty of people who have gone to their graves being the same horrible people they were their entire lives, and not for a lack of people around them trying to persuade them to change. look at the people who commit brutal, awful crimes and never once show an ounce of remorse for what they've done.

some people just aren't capable of change.

Re: What things have been annoying you lately?

[meadowphoenix]

I mean that's a post-hoc determination for real people, in that you can only say people aren't capable of change when they're dead and haven't done so visibly, and even then that can only mean that the threshold that would convince them to change is higher than reasonable or available (or that they have changed in that they would not now react the same as in the past but aren't retroactively indicating that to the people they may have harmed), not that they are incapable of doing so. There's plenty of people who feel remorse but won't show it. Your worldview seems to conflate the social aspects of change, which require demonstration, with the internal mechanisms of change, which are impossible to determine if they were triggered externally.

I think there's a very big difference between "this is enough to restore you to society" which requires some cooperation from the people you harmed and the people who have witnessed or have knowledge about your deeds and "your worldview is more ethical" and while it's reasonable to have a standard for the former that someone may never reach, that doesn't mean the latter was or is impossible or hasn't happened. it just means that it doesn't meet the standard of the former that other people in society will or can accept.

Re: What things have been annoying you lately?

[(Anonymous)]

Realistically speaking? I mean... some people in real life really are irredeemable, and I'm the first person who WOULD try to redeem a villain in fic. Some horrible people in life are deeply set in their patterns by the time they are adults and will never change, either because they lack self-awareness, or are just fine with the situation and have no need to change it. Even if there is a spark of awareness there, the most you can hope for is maybe they cut back on their shit for a while. A partial redemption at the most, and that's assuming they feel the need to work at it everyday. But don't look for someone that hard to turn around completely or suddenly, because that is like chasing a unicorn. If it happens, great, but it's damn rare.

Re: What things have been annoying you lately?

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly, and tbh I think it's incredibly harmful to push the narrative that all people can change and all people can be redeemed because that's how people end up staying with abusers - because they think "Well, he said he's going to change, so surely he means it this time!" when in truth the person in question has zero intention of ever changing their ways because they simply don't care. My friend's grandfather was one of those people: he was abusive (physically and emotionally) to his wife, he was abusive to his daughter (my friend's mother), and he was abusive to my friend for his entire life until the very day he died. He was a horrid person who was absolutely and utterly irredeemable and in fact the entire family celebrated when he finally kicked it.

For some people there's just no hope, and it's better to recognize that fact than it is to push the idea that well maybe THIS time they'll change, because they won't, and people shouldn't waste any time or effort on it.