fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5431 ]

[ SECRET POST #5431 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5431 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #777.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Can you give me some examples? The one thrown a lot in this thread with Tamsyn Muir, but the issue with her fic was that it was a underage non-con posted on a kink meme.

On the teacher front, a quick google brought up numerous stories:

https://www.inquisitr.com/433997/english-teacher-is-fifty-shades-of-fired-for-self-published-erotic-novel-schooled/ (fired for having written an erotic novel)

https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/jacqueline-laurent-auger-fired_n_6021150 (fired for having been in porn films in the 70s. She did get her job back but she should never have been put through that in the first place)

https://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/olivia-sprauer-teacher-fired-for-being-too-sexy-a-glimpse-inside-her-real-life-6446604 (teacher fired for nudes under a pseudonym and unrelated to her job)

Article about sex workers losing custody of their children: https://inthesetimes.com/article/presumed-guilty-of-bad-mothering

Another example of a teacher losing their job over sex work, and a really good article about the effect writing can have on your real life if people who have power over you disapprove of it: https://www.writermag.com/writing-inspiration/the-writing-life/writing-hard-truths/

Article about child custody loss because of (adults-only, consensual) BDSM: https://www.thedailybeast.com/parents-can-lose-custody-of-children-just-for-being-kinky

School volunteer fired for having a (consenting adult only) erotica blog: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/bawdy-bloke-erotica/

Yet ANOTHER teacher fired for writing adult erotic romance: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2011/04/28/going-after-teachers-who-have-side-jobs/

Really good article about how erotica writers navigate these issues, if you're actually interested in learning about it: https://emmanuelledemaupassant.com/2016/06/30/secret-identities/

What does sex-work have to do with writing kinky fiction for personal enjoyment? I'm pretty sure that most people making call-out posts for fandom writers are pro-sex work. I don't deny that sex workers are treated like crap, but these are completely uncomparable situations.

And from the article on people losing children because of BDSM practices, there's a lot of interesting details: "A social worker backed up the ex-husband’s proofless allegations, even outlandish ones where he claimed their eldest son had been hung from the ceiling by his wrist, and removed the children."

So the issue wasn't that they were kinky, the issue was that multiple people claimed the children were physically abused. It may be that all those people were lying because they were prejudiced towards the couple for being in a BDSM relationship, but no one's argument was that they should lose their children because of the nature of their relationship.

What does sex-work have to do with writing kinky fiction for personal enjoyment? I'm pretty sure that most people making call-out posts for fandom writers are pro-sex work.

In theory. Unless the sex work involves kinks and roleplay scenarios they don't like.

Personally, I think most fandom callout people are doing it for clout and to get rid of competition. They know they can probably whip up a mob into a frenzy pretty quickly because people are conditioned to believe that callouts are always important and should never be questioned.

For every callout that does have some actual merit, there are hundreds that are complete hot garbage juice.

People know this, which is why it's even more difficult than it used to be, because we don't know if "pedophile" means someone who's really a danger to kids, or someone who drew some anime teens making out.

And you're cherrypicking what you respond to. What about the teachers fired for being in anyway involved in consenting-adult erotica "for personal enjoyment." Yes. That is, in fact, what sex is for.

> In theory. Unless the sex work involves kinks and roleplay scenarios they don't like.

That would be very difficult to accuse an actress of, and very easy to defend, given how little choice porn actresses have of choosing what they want to perform.

> because we don't know if "pedophile" means someone who's really a danger to kids, or someone who drew some anime teens making out.

I do agree with that, that annoys me as well, though usually just drawing anime teens making out isn't enough to get someone cancelled. Most YA contains scenes of that. And while I personally don't necessarily mind seeing anime teens doing more than making out, I can see why so many teens in fandom feel uncomfortable interacting with adults who make those kind of fanworks.

> And you're cherrypicking what you respond to. What about the teachers fired for being in anyway involved in consenting-adult erotica "for personal enjoyment."

You mean this one? "So how did Eastman/Bright get busted? The details are unclear, but Gather reports that she wrote the novel on a school computer, which violates school policy of using resources for "social networking of a personal nature."

You do realize that independent-agent sex workers, like on OnlyFans, actually do have a lot of agency when it comes to what they will and won't do, right? And that pro dommes also do? And that there are indie women-run porn houses? There are a lot of women in porn and sex work who absolutely do have their own firmly set boundaries. If a pro Domme is asked to RP a Mommy/little scene, she absolutely can refuse it if it's not her thing, or she can do it and make it great.

Yes, there's a lot of abuse and exploitation. But the argument that women in porn (all of them) can't help it, they don't have agency - that's another version of "well, I guess this icky thing is okay as long as they aren't doing it for pleasure."

Writing smut on a school computer is super stupid, I'll grant you that. Immoral, no. But stupid!

+1000 "Icky stuff is only okay if you don't WANT to" is just another step of puritan

I'd still argue that pro Domme is a consenting adult roleplaying a scenario with another consenting adult. And I don't see a lot of the "fandom puritans" which are overwhelmingly teenage girls - watching a lot of pro Dommes on Onlyfans to check the content of their work. hence why generally most sex workers getting cancelled are those who repeatedly break twitch rules.

Yes but in a Mommy/little scene they might well be roleplaying adult/child sex. (Or not - not all scenes have genital sex) You find that objectionable in fiction, so I'd assumed roleplay would be similar, since roleplay is also a form of fiction.

I think the problem you're having is that you spend so much time around teenagers that you're hypervigilant and obssessive about it, and forget that fandom as a whole does not revolve around teenagers, and that the kind of creepiness you talk about seeing is actually not all that common outside of teen zones. Because why would someone who wants to creep on teens hang out in a fandom that's mostly adults (which is most fandoms that aren't based on faddish teen media)? They won't find what they're looking for there.

So you're taking something that's a problem in one specific area of fandom, and projecting it all over people who make adult stuff for an adult audience. And yes, adult erotica creators are often very much at risk for negative consequences based on puritanism.

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(Anonymous) - 2021-11-19 23:44 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2021-11-20 00:20 (UTC) - Expand

I fail to understand what does anything in these articles you linked have to do with people posting controversial fanworks for personal enjoyment on the same account they use for their YA works. People can't change their face. They can change their pen-name. And even in the BDSM story you've linked, no one lost children specifically because of the argument that what happens in their bedroom affects the children. There are mentions of physical abuse against the kids that has been backed by social workers, or “an extensive collection of firearms.”

You're moving the goal posts. You said no one ever gets cancelled for writing or performing in consenting adult erotica, that it ONLY happens when it's incest or noncon or underage. I posted several examples where exactly that happened (cancelled = fired in this case).

Next time someone complains about lack of queer representation in media, I'm going to point to all the lesbian and gay porn to prove them wrong then. Since you apparently think that porn and mainstream fandom are not two completely different and unrelated spaces with their own separate issues.

That doesn't even make sense.

But yes, mainstream fandom does include X-rated fanworks. Always has, always will. This is only a problem if you think erotica is inherently bad and something that needs to be hidden out of sight. I do not think that. There are works of all ratings and all sexual content levels, and they coexist side by side. As long as there are tags and warnings, this is fine.

I really don't see what this has to do with queer representation or lack thereof though. That feels like a huge reach.

Have you read Muir's story? It is very much a story about how awful abuse is, and the victim gets revenge at the end.

And that was not why she faced call-outs, and was in fact her defense from them.

That story was indeed what she faced the call-out for. By someone who either had not bothered to read it, or was deliberately misrepresenting it for clout.

If someone is determined to lie and misrepresent to take you down, you don't need to have written anything at all, they can just make shit up. That was never part of my argument, because it's not something that anyone can help. And I have said previously that is someone goes out of their way to dig stuff up despite the author taking measures to hide it, I'm with the author on that.

My argument was that if you genuinely make controversial fanworks, you should make damn sure to keep it under a sock - or yes, orphan it. This is an appropriate way to act, not something that big bad antis are wrong to force you to do. That is all.

There's a third way:

Yes, I wrote this, and I'm proud of it and I stand by it. Not everyone can do this of course for obvious employment- and death-threat related reasons, but I think the people who are in a position to, should just...refuse to be shamed. The more people who stand up for themselves, the better off we'll be.

Sure you can do that. But if you do any of the following - have a pixiv account, where you post realistic 3d porn of children. Or engage in erotic fandom roleplay with kids. Or made a smutty art of a recently-deceased streamer getting raped by the grim reaper and posted it in a thread made to commemorate his death. Or repeatedly posted art of some twitter artist's OC having sex with their parent and tagging the artist on it - and nobody wants to have anything to do with you afterwards, you really have only yourself to blame.

I don't know why you're jumping to the extremes. The OP themselves said that they were talking about not only explicit fic, but fics with the "wrong" ships which could mean anything in this fandom environment.

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(Anonymous) - 2021-11-19 23:24 (UTC) - Expand

And the OP of the secret was talking about doing just that and afraid of it STILL being dug up. You seem to be stuck on the idea of someone including their smut penname in their middle-grade book's author bio.

I re-read the secret and no, they said nothing about being worried their works would be dug up after being orphaned. The secret is only about how much it sucks that they have to orphan those fics in the first place.

> You seem to be stuck on the idea of someone including their smut penname in their middle-grade book's author bio.

You'd be surprised how many times I've seen it happen. I've seen smut posted in general art/fanfiction channels on discord servers for kids, and the author was fighting to the death over their right to post it there. I've seen people post untagged smut on tumblr under children's fiction tags and explaining that no, they can't tag it, because then tumblr anti-nsfw filters will filter it out. Some people just have no notion of privacy and separation of their main fandom activity from their NSFW activity.

And some people can't accept that fandom has always contained a level of NSFW content and if you want it to be separated that's on you