fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5468 ]

06. https://i.imgur.com/0bCqvuf.png

I feel you on this. I recently stumbled across a fic that lifted full quotes from one of mine, word-for-word, and the author hadn't even bothered to give me a cursory kudo on the fic in question. Probably in hopes I wouldn't notice, but still...

If it's on AO3 you can report it for plagiarism. That is definitely against their TOS.

If it's not word for word, could it be that they think your version is the accepted fanon version of the characters or something and are writing more of the same?

They might not realize you're the origin point and think you're also writing a certain fanon version that doesn't belong to anyone or wasn't created by anyone in particular.

That's giving them the most benefit of the doubt possible though.

I suspect in some cases this is what happens, and in some other cases, the person has not read or seen the source material at All and has based their characters on a fanon interpretation they've absorbed.

So that might be it.

Anyway, OP, yours were dated first, so if anybody notices, they'll notice that, too.

That used to be how English language Ranma fandom was, virtually nobody had seen most of the anime episodes, even fewer had read the source manga, but everyone seemed to love the concept so it was fanon feeding on fanon, and some of it was pretty damn great even if it was often wildly different from the source material. Then a very rabid no-fun-allowed superfan crashed a bunch of sites and started harassing anyone who they claimed diverged from the source material, and things kinda fell apart. Extra galling because that rabidfan had only the weakest grasp of the source's continuity themselves.

That is how fanon works, if you don't like it then you can write original fic and send out cease and desists if people copy you. Let us know how that works out for you.

This is unnecessarily rude. Especially because all OP is saying is that acknowledgment would be nice. They’re not demanding anything. So saying that they would suddenly be cease and desist-happy if they wrote original stories is quite a leap, and an overly cynical one, based on nothing.

And no “that’s how fanon works” isn’t true. There’s just as much people who credit other fic writers when they use their takes on fanon than there are those who don’t. And some people credit other authors for things that are so minor as to not even be recognizable as borrowed from anyone, because some people treat sources of inspiration with that much respect(although I’m not saying everyone should go that far, obviously). So acting like fanon is this inherently wild-west concept where crediting never happens is wrong. And again, overly cynical, to the point of sounding like something an edgelord would say.

I thought this was pretty common in fandoms? Considering all fanfiction based on someone else's ideas/characters in the first place.

Although I guess if people are copying a really good story idea, it makes it harder to change it into an original story to sell off much later on.

Some fanfic authors get super hypocritically possessive over their OC's and headcanon.

Uh, this is how fanon happens and no, no one acknowledges it. Asking for credit on the zeitgeist is kind of petty. Just be happy that your fanonization is being used and not someone else's that you might dislike, honestly.

OP said that some jokes are almost lifted word for word. That’s a level of copying that goes beyond descriptions or characterization lifted word for word, and it’s not petty to want acknowledgment if quotes and jokes are being lifted.

I don't believe accusations of plagiarism without receipts.

I mean, fair enough? And OP even mentions they don’t expect anyone to automatically believe them without evidence, so...

OP also says 2 instances, which I find even harder to believe. Also, I question whether OP has read every single story in the fandom or if OP is certain they haven't been doing any accidental plagiarism of their own from a 3rd source that all 3 parties have lifted from. Eh? The writer's mind is a tricky thing.

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(Anonymous) - 2021-12-26 17:16 (UTC) - Expand

Alot of people are saying that "this is how fanon happens" and while I think it's true to an extent (because yes, you read enough fics, and if everyone is using a particular characterization then...yeah, this is the accepted way to characterize MC). However, I've read fics where the authors have linked back to the fics/authors who inspired them. And while it IS fandom, and we're all taking and sharing and giving and whatnot with each other, I can appreciate that because:
1. As a reader, I now have more wonderful things to read
2. As a writer, I just think it's good form if there was a PARTICULAR fic that inspired me. For example, there's an alt villian version of two heroes I like, and there's really only two writers who write them. I'm totally gonna credit them because they came up with the villain name. I'll do what I want with characterization, but I want to let people know where I found it, because it was good! It also feels nice when someone acknowledges you.

I also understand no one has a true "hold" on characters and ideas in fic -- they belong to no one and everyone at once. But it's nice to list sources if something inspired you! Especially if you're going to straight lift things (that I'm not a fan of -- just say it's a take on this story and link the story).

I totally agree!

I agree with this. I used to write for a super small fandom with a kink meme and I became known as "X/Y Pairing Anon" because I was the only one writing that pairing. Some people eventually outed themselves and began posting their fics publically, and one of them wrote X/Y and credited "X/Y Pairing Anon" for the basic idea behind the character dynamic in the pairing. It takes nothing away from their own creativity, but it acknowledges that the dynamic that made the pairing popular came largely from my creative output.

Writers often don't realize or understand why or how characterization ideas come to them. Assuming it hasn't been directly plagiarized (which I don't believe without receipts) if something sounds familiar, it either truly was inspired by someone else's work or, as I have seen in the past, it can also happen as the result of fandom hive mind where two stories are published within a few weeks of each other along the same lines. Fandom really is that closely tied together, especially when it's running hot.

In any event, yes, it's nice to credit ideas, but a lot of times, if it's just a piece of an idea or concept, the writer might not even realize. In any event, this concept of ownership is pretty ridiculous considering it's fanfic. We're all thieves to start with. Any extra "characters or ideas" are fruit of the poisoned tree.

“Writers often don't realize or understand why or how characterization ideas come to them.”

“In any event, yes, it's nice to credit ideas, but a lot of times, if it's just a piece of an idea or concept, the writer might not even realize.”

I hear people say things like this a lot here. But I don’t really agree or understand why this seems to be a widespread sentiment. It might be my own anecdotal experiences that don’t line up with the majority of people, I admit that that’s a possibility. But I always remember where I get inspiration from. Whether it was from an official work or a fic, it’s not hard for me to remember where ideas come from. I didn’t think this was an uncommon thing, and I assumed most people remember where they got ideas and inspiration from at least most of the time. And forgetting where someone got an idea is even less believable to me if a fandom is small enough to where most of the fandom knows each other, and the majority of the fic characterization is based on fanon. If the fandom was a lot bigger and thus harder to keep track of all the people in it, or a fic writer is new and/or doesn’t look at the dates on fic to try to find out where a fanon idea they liked most likely originated, then I guess I could buy it more. I guess I could see where you’re coming from if you didn’t throw in that writers “often” don’t realize or understand why or how characterization ideas come to them. I just don’t know if this is something that happens to that many people. But maybe I’m wrong, and it’s just easier for some to pinpoint inspirations than others.

And I really don’t read OP as “claiming ownership” of their fanon characterization. I see it as them pointing out that they were the first in the fandom to write these characters a certain way, but that’s it. They just think it would be nice to be acknowledged(which you even agreed would be nice). I don’t think they’re being petty, claiming ownership, or demanding anything of anyone. But some people seem quick to accuse them of this behavior for reasons I don’t get, as well as assumption their intentions. I don’t understand why this secret is being read in the least charitable way possible.

If you honestly, as a writer, think your ideas are purely your own, freshly out of your own head, then I'm afraid you are kidding yourself. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. It's an unconscious thing. Unless we memorize everything we read and can quote it word for word, things slip into our subconscious, where our writer brains go digging for ideas. This is scientific fact, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. You can't filter out all the words and phrases and concepts you've read before when you sit down to write your own. You can quote Mark Twain on that.

So, in that vein, I think it's petty of OP to want credit for characterization of a character that they've already stolen. Yeah. wtf. And kind of hypocritical and hilarious to boot. This whole convo is kind of moot in that regard.

Peace out.

I never said ideas are purely my own. I specifically said that I always remember where I got ideas from. That’s the opposite of thinking the ideas are my own. How did you even get this from my comment? I can definitely acknowledge the scientific fact you brought up, because it contradicts literally nothing that I’ve said. Same with the Mark Twain quote, which also contradicts nothing. And me giving OP the benefit of the doubt because there’s nothing to prove whether they’re wrong or right isn’t contradicting the scientific fact or Mark Twain quote either.

You’re not trying to be rude, but you still manage to be condescending. Putting words in people’s mouths, and assuming intentions will always be a little rude. Plus, pulling out science and quotes from famous authors when they’re not relevant to the situation will always seem a bit pretentious.

OP didn’t “steal” the characters. Fanfic writers only borrow characters. It would really only really be stealing if money was made, and some may dispute even that(I don’t though). But whether you think borrowing vs. stealing is semantics or not, that isn’t the point. The fact that OP didn’t create and doesn’t own the actual character doesn’t change anything about the secret. The characterization that they added is still something different, and all they were asking for is a shoutout.

And sure, since they didn’t provide any evidence, they can’t prove anything they’re saying. But it also means that you have no basis to prove that their fanon characterization wasn’t their own, besides your own assumptions. There really isn’t anything that’s that petty about this, and you haven’t given any solid reasoning to provide why you think it’s hypocritical. Other than “fanfic writers already steal characters”, and continually warping OP’s tone to be more demanding and egotistical than it is.

Also you were all about how borrowing ideas without realizing being perfectly fine and normal when talking about the fic writers OP was talking about, or writers in general. But suddenly it’s stealing when you apply it to OP? Is using other’s ideas excusable or not? I’m getting some mixed messages. And it seems like you’re using a different and more negative standard for OP than other writers.

Either way, I don’t mean to be rude either. It’s obviously fine for you to think what you want. I was just trying to understand why you think the way you do about this while explaining the way my experiences differ. While also acknowledging that individual experiences might be too anecdotal to really work off of.

If you feel that it’s all moot, I don’t understand why you still replied?

Peace out to you too.

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(Anonymous) - 2021-12-26 17:38 (UTC) - Expand

I feel for you. No one likes to feel like someone is not acknowledging their work. However, unless they are lifting word for word sections from your fics, they don't actually owe you anything. You've added to the fanon and it can't be owned by any of us.

As people above mentioned, they may not even know you are the origin point. But really, what they know or not doesn't matter. I know people get possessive of their characterizations (Tis the stuff of Fan Wars) but it's not your IP. Sorry but you just have to become zen about it and let it go. Enjoy that your characterizations are becoming lore and you have more to read.

I totally feel you on this, OP. They don't have to credit you for inspiring them, but it would be the considerate thing to do, and if I was in your shoes it would bother me a little, too.

If it helps at all, they probably haven't mentioned you because they know they're borrowing a lot from your writing and they feel insecure about it. I've definitely seen this kind of thing crop up a few times, and almost always it's a less skilled writer borrowing heavily from a BNF's writing without acknowledging that they've been inspired by anyone.

Thanks for your perspectives, guys. You're entitled to your opinions and I did expect some pushback, as it unfortunately seems that every topic involving courtesy in fandom has become hotly contested on FS in recent years. I do find some of this pretty cynical toward a secret which simply said "Credit *would be nice* but I am not even asking for that, I just think it would be nice to leave a comment or thumbs up on something that inspires you." It's fair to be skeptical, I've shown you no proof of the writing side by side and I haven't named the fandom to demonstrate how distinct these ideas are. In my opinion it's also a bit silly to imply plagiarism in fandom is a rare thing that is so difficult to believe, but I recognize I don't get to make that call. For the record, I used terms like "characterization" and "descriptions" to keep the secret succinct as it was already getting long, but the fic in question has entire paragraphs and dialogue exchanges that are paraphrased from ones I've written describing distinct scenarios, not just universal things that exist in every fic. None of what I'm questioning the source of here is based directly on canon material, as I realize two or four or ninety people can have the same idea about the canon characters/plot. I'm not claiming I own anything. I'm not claiming I am owed anything. I'm not seeking a fight. I'm not trying to persecute anyone or seek retribution. I just wanted a place to vent about how the lack of even a simple kudos from a writer who clearly read my stories hurt my feelings a bit. Have a good one guys.

[ SECRET POST #5468 ]

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OP