fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #800 ]

[ SECRET POST #800 ]

⌈ Secret Post #800 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

__________________________________________________

102.

__________________________________________________

103.

__________________________________________________

104.

__________________________________________________

105.

__________________________________________________

106.

__________________________________________________

107.

__________________________________________________

108.

__________________________________________________

109.

__________________________________________________

110.

[Supernatural]

__________________________________________________

111.

__________________________________________________

112.

[Jerry Falwell]

__________________________________________________

113.

__________________________________________________

114.

__________________________________________________

115.

__________________________________________________

116.

__________________________________________________

117.

__________________________________________________

118.

__________________________________________________

119.

__________________________________________________

120.

__________________________________________________

121.

__________________________________________________

122.

__________________________________________________

123.

__________________________________________________

124.

__________________________________________________

125.

[xxxHOLiC]

__________________________________________________

126.

__________________________________________________

127.

__________________________________________________

128.

[Joel McHale]

__________________________________________________

129.

__________________________________________________

130.

__________________________________________________

131.

__________________________________________________

132.

__________________________________________________

133.

__________________________________________________

134.

__________________________________________________

135.

__________________________________________________

136.

__________________________________________________

137.

[Neopets]

__________________________________________________

138.

__________________________________________________

139.

__________________________________________________

140.

__________________________________________________

141.

__________________________________________________

142.

__________________________________________________

143.

__________________________________________________

144.

__________________________________________________

145.

__________________________________________________

146.

__________________________________________________

147.

__________________________________________________

148.

__________________________________________________

149.

__________________________________________________

150.

__________________________________________________

151.

__________________________________________________

152.

__________________________________________________

153.

__________________________________________________

154.

__________________________________________________

155.

__________________________________________________

156.

__________________________________________________

157.

__________________________________________________

158.

__________________________________________________

159.

__________________________________________________

160.

__________________________________________________

161.

__________________________________________________

162.

__________________________________________________

163.

__________________________________________________

164. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

165.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 383 secrets from Secret Submission Post #115.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

101. Well, they were fucking awesome; that might have been part of it. (I may or may not have procured just the first ~15 minutes of the movie through slightly less-than-legal means just so I could watch it a few more times.)

102. Hee, yay! Watchmen secrets FTW. He's definitely interesting; I wish we'd spent more time on him and his story. NEED DVD NOW.

107. (Seriously, I'm loving this.) Same here! So much of the emotion got me more in the movie than the novel. My reactions were mostly limited to "HOLY SHIT" and "AWESOME" and "????" in the novel, but with the movie I was all over the place.

112. Tinky-Winky, actually. His purse, aside from being a sign of flagrant homosexuality, also points to the penchant for materialism that is ruining our country. DAMN THE TELETUBBIES! DAMN ALL THE TELETUBBIES!!

116. Eh, I don't blame you. I'm really pissed the movie didn't stay at #1 because people are too STUPID to appreciate a movie that requires thinking, so all these passionate secrets from fans are making me feel better.

121. Man, I love that movie. They're fascinating. (And he is HOT.)

122. I COMPLETELY sympathize; same exact here. Friend me if you want! I'll listen!

128. I love him sfm. He's wonderful. ♥

129. I only just discovered this fuckery, but MAN, what a maelstrom of moronity. I support this porn idea 100%.

138. I think LeBlanc suggested that they mention in the finale that Phoebe and Joey had been having casual sex all along, but they didn't go for it. ;) I like their friendship better, anyway.

158. ...Yeah, probably. (I admit I'm only seeing it for him, but I promise I won't taint the fandom with bad fic.) But it's not just teen girls who don't get him--my mother calls him "that guy with the pointy ears who's like 'I have no feelings.'" D:

129. So fans need to sit down, shut up, and stop talking about racism in the SF/F industry? Because porn takes precedent?

Whaaaaa...?

I think it's more of a slightly ironic 'can't we all just get along; stop fanning the flames; let's bring some goodness into the world' sort of message. But don't look at me, I didn't make the secret.

People are not speaking out because they're trolling or trying to "fan the flames." From what I've read they're speaking out because the industry has problems, which need to be addressed.

I'm finding it very troubling that you place the fans who are discussing their experiences as PoC in opposition to bringing "goodness into the world".

There's a difference between debating and wanking. As I said in my original comment, I only just discovered this thing, so I don't pretend to be an expert on it by any means, but I think the OP's point was that at this point it's not going anywhere and no one's learning anything, it's just descended into bitching. (They're calling it RaceFail for a reason.) And my point was that if that's the case, then fuck it; we might as well just focus on some hot, mind-numbing fanfic for all the good it's doing.

They're calling it RaceFail for a reason

Yes, I don't think it means what you think it means.

As I said in my original comment, I only just discovered this thing, so I don't pretend to be an expert on it by any means, but I think the OP's point was that at this point it's not going anywhere and no one's learning anything, it's just descended into bitching.

And I disagree with that point with my whole heart. I've actually been following RaceFail 09, and I've read some really heart-breaking and thought-provoking essays from fans who have contributed to the discussion. It changed how I look at the world. How can anyone say that no one's leaned anything? I've learned something. If no one was learning, experiencing, being affected, this wouldn't be happening right now.

You said that you haven't delved into this debate recently. Know now that people have been hurt. Fans are actually being threatened and outed because they say things that some figures with authority don't like, and when you declare that they shut up and quit bitching you're stepping on a huge minefield built from what has transpired that you're probably not aware of yet.

If you want to read more about what's been going on, here's a good summary (http://rydra-wong.livejournal.com/155427.html) of the events. If you want to read further, check out Metafandom (http://community.livejournal.com/metafandom/).

Your response was, I quote: What a maelstrom of moronity. I support this porn idea 100%.

Now you say that you only have just discovered RaceFail 09. I suggest (not decree, but I seriously suggest) that if you're going to agree with a secret declaring that fans shut up and write porn, that you get a better grasp for yourself of what that means to those ladies who, as you read into the secret, have "descended into bitching".

I just want to say that you rule me. Thank you for your cogent, informative responses here.

We should never stop talking about race and how people of color are impacted by racism, and we should never ever tell anyone discussing racism to STFU.

Well, I think the discussion has merit at its core. But on the other hand, some of those who spoke out were attacked to the point where people were getting personal about their IRL lives, etc, among lots of other mindfuckery crap.

So I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. I think it's important that people express their views because that's what blogging is for and they shouldn't stop due to a few idiots who can't carry on a civil conversation. But at the same time, the fallout from Racefail '09 is pretty insane and it does feel tiring in a way.

There's been a lot of fallout, but some of said fallout have been very constructive. Media criticism is always good. It sucks when people are attacked personally.

I understand how tiring it gets for some people. But something so systemic as prejudice, racism, and white privilege is not something we can turn off, so neither should the discussion of it be. In a way, discussion is easier for others to ignore. Flip the channel or read a new LJ. Could one do the same for our world?

Definitely not saying people should stop writing about it, considering if people don't post about it, where else are they gonna be heard as effectively? Like you said, scrolling past is easy. I've found all of the discussion really interesting, fallout aside.

I guess I just meant to say that I don't think the sentiment of the secret was as STFU YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO WRITE WHAT I WANT as some people here (not you) seem to feel it was, though perhaps it could've been better worded. Or possibly I'm giving the poster too much benefit of the doubt.

Or possibly I'm giving the poster too much benefit of the doubt.

I think you might be. Seriously, I tend to skip secrets I disagree with, but with that secret, my hackles were raised. High. First of all, there is no single "point" with what's going on here. And if there was, it wouldn't be something so redundant as "racism = bad, but rather, the point is that racism is still alive and well in an industry who has many prominent figures who refuse to acknowledge this. Not only that, but who use their powers to try to silence the fans who do.

The "Can everyone STFU about this and go right some porn already?" was just the cherry bomb on the crap cake.

(no subject)

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2009-03-15 22:01 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

frakalakalaka.livejournal.com - 2009-03-15 22:55 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

heather.livejournal.com - 2009-03-16 01:30 (UTC) - Expand

Tell you what. I'll start getting along when people stop telling me to shut the fuck up about being visibly black.

The ignorant type of people who would say that are exactly who I'm referring to--I think discussions of race are terrific learning experiences, but only when everyone's actually willing to have an open mind and listen. Again, I'm no expert, but from the threads I've read from this whole situation, there's a lot of ignorance and "SHUT UP, I AM TOTES RIGHT" going on instead of productive conversation, and that's what I'm opposed to, not the discussion. And as you can see, I said 'ironic,' so I didn't actually mean 'shut up about race and just be happy and nice.'

But what's visible isn't necessarily all there is. Not everyone following any given discussion will speak up - for every one asshole who demands people explain and justify and bare themselves knowing full well he has no intention of changing his mind, there are ten people reading who might be totally open to new ideas and see something that clicks with them.

The fact that it isn't a learning experience for the one asshole who refuses to think doesn't invalidate any other learning going on.

It's still sort of like... "WTF, self? WHY?"

Dude, have you seen all the "OMG I WANNA HIT THE COMEDIAN LIKE A SCREEN DOOR IN A HURRICANE" secrets? There are worse fictional men to like. :D

101. XD Same here.

Your, and the OP's, casual dismissal of these issues being discussed fills me with rage.

I just posted a long reply to secret #129 without reading the other comments... and here you have condensed my very point into one sentence!

*is so sheepish about longwindedness that wool is sprouting spontaneously*

Aww, don't feel bad! The above user had pretty much summed up what I wanted to say, but I was so angry that I just had to add something.

Actually, I wanted to really go off on a rant about how, fine, live in your pretty, privileged world, but for GOD'S SAKE stop dismissing everyone else's suffering, oppression, discrimination, etc. as something that they need to stop talking about. Because it makes you UNCOMFORTABLE that you OBVIOUSLY don't have to deal with it. That you are a part of and ::gasp:: BENEFIT from a system that opresseses the minority group. So you must invoke your privilege by YELLING at people to stop MAKING YOU UNCOMFORTABLE!!11

That's it, minorities. Get back on your knees while I spit in your face. And don't forget to smile!

I think Racefail 09 is a good thing. For once, through the anonymity of the internet, people (and I refer to people of color specifically) can finally speak out on the racism and prejudice that is forced upon them without having to worry about people not listening. Because, people ARE listening. Even if they don't agree, they are hearing them. It makes me angry that yet another example of white privilege is that white people talking about it will be taken more seriously than anyone else (bonus points if they are a white male.) However, because it is impossible to tell what "race" a person is (well, almost impossible on first glance) online, everyone has at least a chance of being heard. Sort of.

Oh, I ended up ranting anyway. Whoops.

*goes off to read your reply with great anticipation :D*

Yeah, I had to edit my post a zillion million times before it was civil and in terms that I felt would make more sense to the OP than "You bastard, stop giving white SF/F fans a bad name."

...aaaaand I just checked my email and saw that you replied to my other comment while I was typing this. *facepalm* :D

Lol, I was actually going around this thread replying to every poster who agreed with the OP until I realized that it was making me look obnoxious and juvenile.

As a white SF/F/person in general, I sympathize. Writing my research paper on white privilege has forced me to read some...disheartening opinions.

lol, I assume you might be doing the same.

I generally agree with what you've put here (in the sense that talking about all of this is very good and necessary), though I want to note for the record that you don't know the ethnicity of the OP. I followed the whole thing for a while and it gave me a very bad migrane about how stupid some people were taking it. Some threads really had descended to nothing more than insulting occuring on both sides of it, so I do see where the OP is coming from even if I disagree. (Especially if they mean it more as "please, can we calm down for a few minutes THEN continue the discussion with the intelligent discourse but without the personal attacks" like I've seen some people call for. But I don't think the OP is saying that, which is why I disagree very much with said OP)

I'm a minority myself, so please don't bash me for calling on white privilege or anything of that. All I mean is - while I agree with much of your criticism! - descending into "how, fine, live in your pretty, privileged world, but for GOD'S SAKE stop dismissing everyone else's suffering, oppression, discrimination, etc. as something that they need to stop talking about", etc doesn't help. As you said, the internet is anonymous. For all you know, OP could (I don't think so, but it's possible) be a minority who is just tired of all the excessive drama that Racefail been coming up with (outings, bashings, broken friendships, the lot).

...I tried to word that in a way that would not sound like I'm attacking you, because I'm really not. I just disagree with one point of your critique, because, well. It's not just the WASP priveleged elite who might want to avoid drama. Sometimes the minorities come online to get away from it all, not to get into it all, y'know? But again - it's a necessary discussion to have in SF/F in general, etc. Just try not to make ad hominim assumptions, because that's as revealing of set biases and prejudices as the OP's avoidance is.

*sigh* Hopefully this didn't come off half as badly as I'm sure it did.

No, I should really be apologizing.

I'm sorry for generalizing like that; you're right, it doesn't help and it's not very mature.

I just...(and I'm really not trying to excuse myself) I wanted to make the point that when people are talking about something that directly affects them in a negative way (such as prejudice), other people (especially the ones who belong to the group that take part in the discrimination) really shouldn't come in and start dismissing their concerns/opinions just because they do not believe it is something that deserves attention/is unimportant/whatever.

You are right, the sarcasm/name calling doesn't help, and I let my emotions rule for a moment, but I really do believe that people should talk about this. From all sides. And no, people shouldn't be forced to participate in something that makes them uncomfortable/hurt/etc. (even, in this case, white people.) However, not having to deal with it is a privilege that, unfortunately, white people usually posses. Because they can always sign off and go back to their real life and be unaffected. But for everyone else, they usually can't.

Err, I also apologize if I gave the impression of someone that would jump down your throat for calling me out on my own flaws. I try to welcome criticism. I take it as an educational experience (after sobbing into my pillow for a half hour. Just kidding.)

For the record, I am white. I usually am not a big participator in online discussions and throughout most of racefail, I have hung back and watched. I'm kind of intimidated easily in RL. :/ Umm, but it's opinions like the OPs that generate the strongest reaction from myself. Mainly because it is the people who share those opinions (which are usually white) that keep racefail keep going.

Err, hopefully this didn't come out as horrible as it sounds to myself. D:

I 100% agree.... I want my stories back and the authors have all been off fighting with each other!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #800 ]

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

(no subject)

(no subject)

(no subject)

no subject

no subject

no subject

121 OP

Re: 121 OP

no subject

129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re:129