[ SECRET POST #5557 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5557 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.



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02.
[Chrissie Hynde and Ali Campbell from UB40]


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03.



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04.
[Spyro: Year of the Dragon]


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05.
[Image is from Eureka SeveN]


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06.





















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #795.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

... okay, I'm confused. How can there be arguments on how to pronounce something in a Japanese fandom where names are generally written in katakana that spells out exactly how to pronounce it?

[(Anonymous)]

Usually when it's not a Japanese name. Katakana is limited and Japanese phonetic pronunciations of foreign names are rarely perfect. For example, the closest you can get to "Venus" in Japanese is "Biinasu" or "Buinasu," and the former is used in Sailor Moon for Sailor Venus. But of course no English-speaking fan calls her Biinasu, we call her Venus.

Less common names like Eureka are trickier to agree on because neither the Japanese nor the English pronunciation is perfect. I believe the Japanese is actually closer to the original Greek pronunciation than what English settled on with "Yoo-REE-ka," and that might have been what the dub was attempting, but either way we ended up with two different pronunciations of her name in the official show, depending on what language you're watching it in. That's how debates start.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT but - correct me if I'm wrong here - my understanding is that OP's preferred name is *neither* of the official names?

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Right. I take a third option, which will probably piss everyone off. But I can't help but feel stupid and pretentious saying it either way the show says it. I feel like that asshole customer who orders a "cwahsawhn" (croissant) at USA Starbucks location #12378987123.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

I guess that’s fair enough, although I disagree that it’s all that pretentious(although I still loled at your croissant remark, because those people are legit obnoxious).

But that’s not how it read in your secret to me. It read as you thinking the “normal English pronunciation” was the correct one, and you expected the dub to use it over the “incorrect” Japanese pronunciation(which is closer to the original Greek pronunciation as anon said upthread). It seemed that maybe you didn’t know that the word has Greek origins, and that the original word did not sound like the English pronunciation you prefer, and the Japanese one was actually closer. I’m probably wrong, but that’s how the secret reads to me before I saw this clarification.

Is the reason you single out the dub as “making a bad choice” over targeting the original Japanese track instead that you expected them to go with the “Eureka!” pronunciation? That you thought they should do that, or at least wanted that? But I don’t see why the dub would do that. Undermining the original Japanese pronunciation via mispronouncing Japanese names by using the wrong syllable emphasis like dubs always used to do is one thing. And some anime and video games when being localized would straight up change character names to Americanize things, avoid possible copyright infringement, or change long or what they consider complicated names to something they deem easier for young audiences. But all that aside, when an anime script is trying to be faithful to the original audio, like Eureka Seven’s was, the localizers wouldn’t see a reason to change it, even if it clashes with the more common English pronunciation.

I still get being annoyed because you prefer a certain pronunciation though. I prefer the Latin/French pronunciation of peridot so much that I even submitted a secret of my own talking about how grating I found the pronunciation in Steven Universe as a result, even though I know the pronunciation used in the show is also correct. Even if my preferred pronunciation is thought to be the original by some gemologists and language experts(they say that it was originally perido, and that the “t” was only added when brought to France, which of course means that the “t” would still be silent), that wouldn’t mean that the pronunciation like in SU that uses the more literal English phonetic pronunciation isn’t just as valid. Because it’s been around probably almost as long to the point that which came first might as well be a quibble. But that doesn’t mean it still doesn’t annoy me more than it should. So I do get where you’re coming from.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

... wait, there are different pronunciations of "peridot"? Because I've literally only ever heard it said one way my entire life.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

There are. Only two to my knowledge though.

[meadowphoenix]

I believe the Japanese is actually closer to the original Greek pronunciation than what English settled on with "Yoo-REE-ka,"
It's better in stress, but not vowel sound. Both incorrectly pronounce the "eu" at the beginning because it's an aspirated (similar to herb or hour) and a dipthong (so treated as one syllable but not exactly said as one vowel). The acute accent is on the "eu" so that's the stress, but the "e" in eureka is actually is actually η or eta in εὕρηκα and that is long (specifically a long e, though not so in modern greek). Long-long-short isn't necessarily a common scansion for a lot of greek words, so I'm not surprised other languages have tried to resolve it in different ways.

[tabaqui]

So how does it sound if you say it aloud? Can you write it phonetically? Because I only know what a diphthong is when I google it (for the billionth time because my brain won't hold onto it), and of course, Greek letters/pronunciation are ....all Greek to me.

[meadowphoenix]

so you know how you sorta breathe out when you begin to say the "h" at the beginning of a word? life a huff almost? the word begins with that huff, not the full h, just the huff. I'm not sure writing it phonetically would get that across.

HUE-ree-ka is the way I was taught during university.
HUE-reh-ka is apparently also acceptable, and probably more prevailing now.


first syllable:
if you were to say it in extreme slow motion it would be: eh-you elided (with the huff of air first). However, in regular speech it's closer to hew/hue with the "h" barely spoken. Emphasis is here.

second syllable:
tbh, regarding "η" I know I was taught that it was long e as in "ee" but apparently that's the subject of some controversy (so english and japan as equally correct here lmao), so I gave you both versions, the second being the IPA version.

last syllable:
ca, like the sound a crow makes without the "w", slides off/weaker than the rest of the word

[tabaqui]

Innnnnteresting! Thank you. :D I did not know there was any controversy over the pronunciation of this word, but...that's America for you.

I remember reading 'Goodbye Mr. Chips', and the 'controversy' in that book between Mr. Chips and the new head of the school over Latin pronunciation, which I *also* had no idea was a 'thing'.

To be fair, I was....12? when i read that, so not like Latin was looming large in my life, or anything, but up until that time, i hadn't really thought about it was pronounced, as I was too ignorant to know that people actually studied and spoke it like any other language.
Thanks again! This is neat. :D

[meadowphoenix]

For once, it's not an America thing, it's more of how much of Greek by way of Latin is useful thing.

I think every academic subject needs a couple good rousers for all the conferences they have, ha ha.

[tabaqui]

Hee! I think so, too. :D