fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5809 ]

[ SECRET POST #5809 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5809 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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02. https://i.imgur.com/0ILWuJb.jpg

Well, this is the question we all should be asking ourselves. Because you know. We need it now more than ever before, probably.

This is how I feel about Brazillian anti-military dictatorship music. Considering the crazies that popped up from our far-right recently, we could use it, just to push them off a bit.

IDK, I mean, from an American perspective, Iraq's been effectively over for a decade, and America was even able to withdraw from Afghanistan, so military adventurism and jingoism feels like it's not quite as much of a live issue as it has been at other times in the past.

DA

That's not how it seems to me. The US is still running torture camps all over the world and bio-weapons labs and huge military exercises, to the tune of billions of dollars. I remember when radio stations in the US all abruptly stopped playing songs like Imagine, in the wake of 9/11. And I don't interact with American media enough to measure whether anti-war themes ever came back, afterwards, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're still being suppressed. I certainly haven't seen anything with an advertising budget that's openly anti-war, and American, in a very long time. Hypocritical, trite "fighting is bad, kids" moralizing does not count.

I agree that there was a lot of space for anti-war messaging in the aftermath of 9/11

But that's been 20 years ago

Doesn't the majority of the American movie industry have some kind of deal with the military or is that just Disney?

Blockbuster action movies are often made with cooperation from the military.

DA
I didn't know that!
I know the government or military sometimes asks for supportive storylines or characters, to not make the US the enemies.

Nu!Anon

If you want to use US military hardware in your film you either need the military's approval or a GIANT pile of money to make props/vehicles/uniforms. So you can bet how that usually goes.

And also there's the theory that you can't make an anti-war war movie. Was it Jarhead that had marines watching Apocalypse Now and getting hyped? Idk, anyway. It's an issue.

Besides many American film studios being in cahoots with the army, I think that many people have become super apathetic about the going-ons of the world.

A new version of All Quiet on the Western Front just got released and right wing dude bros are decrying it as "war is bad liberal propaganda." So there's that.

There's a lot of in it music, but movies are so expensive to make these days that government critique gets very muted. Not to mention all the blockbusters that have active military co-operation and funding, MCU.

Movies aren't that expensive to make, especially indie movies. And something like the MCU would just never be anti-war in the first place.

If someone really wanted to go out and make an anti-war movie, I'm sure they could. I don't think the funding is really necessarily the problem - it doesn't help, it certainly is harder to get mid-budget movies made, but non-Disney movies do still exist.

I mean arguably the major global conflict right now is the invasion of Ukraine. And everyone who is "anti-war" on that front seems to think the solution is for Ukraine to surrender. It's very hard to listen to someone preaching peace when all you want to do is defend what's yours. And frankly, if you're forced to fight a war, you may as well have some enthusiasm. Ukraine has been running on pure "get fucked, Russia" and I think that's more potent and useful than "oh the tragic loss of life, why can't there be peace?!". As if it's that easy.

Shouldn't the "anti-war" folks be AGAINST the INVASION by Russia itself?! Why the hell are some non-Russian people on Russia side anyway is something I will never understand.

It's a cascade stemming from black-and-white thinking. People are unhappy with how US works and since US ideologically opposes Russia that leads to "US bad, Russia good" mentality. Which in turn makes them more susceptible to Russian propaganda. Couple that with lack of knowledge about eastern Europe and it's easy to get "anti-war" people supporting warmongering.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2022-12-02 20:34 (UTC) - Expand

They are people who think that America is the only country that matters or has any agency, so if anything happens, it must be America's fault.

Or they are people who hate the global liberal American-European-Western international order (or the domestic political institutions in various countries which are part of that order) so much that they will support any force that opposes it, no matter how ghoulish and awful.

Or they are just evil people who are opportunistically calling themselves "anti-war" because that sounds good.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2022-12-02 20:34 (UTC) - Expand

You're strawmanning the argument against sending (more) American weapons and military personnel to Ukraine pretty badly, here. Countries have a generally-recognized right to do as they see fit, within their own borders, as long as their government is not engaging in genocide. If they are, other countries can and do take that as cause for declaring war, especially if it's their people being massacred. Borders have been redrawn over exactly that before.

That's the cause Russia invoked publicly. While western media has pooh-poohed it and is heavily paraphrasing Russian speeches to avoid addressing any of what's said, I haven't seen them refute evidence or prove that Russia was lying.

I loathe the way Putin panders to the orthodox church and conservatives. But it seems to me that NATO incited the politicians in Ukraine to pick a fight with Russia, so that the US could have another proxy war, instead of an unpopular officially declared war.

Also, the various actual abuses that take place during war do not discriminate between wars that are fought for noble causes and wars that are sheer profiteering. So most of the reasons people are anti-war in general apply.

That's all bullshit.

Russia's claims are very transparently not true. People were not being massacred in Ukraine. The burden of proof would be on you or on the Russians to prove that; but you can't, because it wasn't taking place. There were outstanding issues wrt language politics that needed to be addressed through existing political mechanisms. But that's hardly a legitimate casus belli.

At no point did Ukraine "pick a fight with Russia." Russia had previously annexed Ukrainian territory, and then launched a further invasion without any real provocation or justification other than a belief in an expansive view of Russian hegemony, a belief that Ukraine should be a suzerain to the Russian state and Russian people and that Russia should be able to determine the internal affairs and foreign relations of Ukraine. Those are the facts of what happened.

The abuses that take place in war do not discriminate based on the justness of the struggle. But when one country launches a war of choice and then engages in massive war crimes in its conduct of that war, the responsibility for those crimes rightly lies with them, and only with them.

Military had a PR makeover due to the Vietnam War. There have been docs and podcasts and articles written on how the US government learned to change their PR and invest in all sorts of ways and places to throw their propaganda out there so we don't question the nature of how prevalent and wrong it is to normalize it in the US.

Stuns me the criticism US citizens give South Korea on their military enlistment yet they don't question why so many people join the Army to get a college education. There are legacy military families from the War in the Middle East. THIS IS NOT NORMAL

But it is. And we see people question these things routinely but so many hands and industries rely on the military propaganda machine to operate as it should, few in high positions want to allow too much boat rocking. No one wants to start losing money.

The US government puts so much money into the military, there should be a lot more media and general American interest in questioning the status quo of the military propaganda machine, I 100% agree. It scares me actually how little mainstream media is with being critical toward the military propaganda

There are Americans who criticize South Korea for their military investment? What?

Not for military investment but for mandatory military service policies, I think

there's a meaningful distinction between being anti-war, and being opposed to military propaganda and military spending.

there are a lot of bad things about the military as an institution in the United States - we spend way too much money on it, our cultural norms around the military are completely fucked, and there are a lot of incredibly fucked up practices, like recruiting and enlistment practices as you mention.

at the same time, the reality is that the armed forces at the present moment are largely not being used for any military purpose. and the public appetite and desire for the armed forces to actually engage in a war are really not present. the disaster of Iraq really fundamentally soured the American public on war for at least a generation - much more so than Vietnam ever did. and we're not fighting any wars right now, so there's no war to make an anti-war film against. we've even withdrawn from Afghanistan and massively decreased drone strikes.

I have been thinking about the same thing, nonny. Two weeks ago I went to see a 1937 play by Czech writer Karel Čapek at a local socialist theater and was struck not just by how uncannily relevant that play felt (The White Disease is about war-mongering in the midst of a pandemic from China) but how... refreshing it was to see art about the folly of war.

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