[ SECRET POST #5809 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5809 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #831.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I mean arguably the major global conflict right now is the invasion of Ukraine. And everyone who is "anti-war" on that front seems to think the solution is for Ukraine to surrender. It's very hard to listen to someone preaching peace when all you want to do is defend what's yours. And frankly, if you're forced to fight a war, you may as well have some enthusiasm. Ukraine has been running on pure "get fucked, Russia" and I think that's more potent and useful than "oh the tragic loss of life, why can't there be peace?!". As if it's that easy.

[(Anonymous)]

Shouldn't the "anti-war" folks be AGAINST the INVASION by Russia itself?! Why the hell are some non-Russian people on Russia side anyway is something I will never understand.

[(Anonymous)]

It's a cascade stemming from black-and-white thinking. People are unhappy with how US works and since US ideologically opposes Russia that leads to "US bad, Russia good" mentality. Which in turn makes them more susceptible to Russian propaganda. Couple that with lack of knowledge about eastern Europe and it's easy to get "anti-war" people supporting warmongering.

[(Anonymous)]

That's bold taking into account Trump being in good terms with Putin though.

[(Anonymous)]

They are people who think that America is the only country that matters or has any agency, so if anything happens, it must be America's fault.

Or they are people who hate the global liberal American-European-Western international order (or the domestic political institutions in various countries which are part of that order) so much that they will support any force that opposes it, no matter how ghoulish and awful.

Or they are just evil people who are opportunistically calling themselves "anti-war" because that sounds good.

[(Anonymous)]

Makes sense, even if it's an incredibly stupid sense. Thanks.

[(Anonymous)]

You're strawmanning the argument against sending (more) American weapons and military personnel to Ukraine pretty badly, here. Countries have a generally-recognized right to do as they see fit, within their own borders, as long as their government is not engaging in genocide. If they are, other countries can and do take that as cause for declaring war, especially if it's their people being massacred. Borders have been redrawn over exactly that before.

That's the cause Russia invoked publicly. While western media has pooh-poohed it and is heavily paraphrasing Russian speeches to avoid addressing any of what's said, I haven't seen them refute evidence or prove that Russia was lying.

I loathe the way Putin panders to the orthodox church and conservatives. But it seems to me that NATO incited the politicians in Ukraine to pick a fight with Russia, so that the US could have another proxy war, instead of an unpopular officially declared war.

Also, the various actual abuses that take place during war do not discriminate between wars that are fought for noble causes and wars that are sheer profiteering. So most of the reasons people are anti-war in general apply.

[(Anonymous)]

That's all bullshit.

Russia's claims are very transparently not true. People were not being massacred in Ukraine. The burden of proof would be on you or on the Russians to prove that; but you can't, because it wasn't taking place. There were outstanding issues wrt language politics that needed to be addressed through existing political mechanisms. But that's hardly a legitimate casus belli.

At no point did Ukraine "pick a fight with Russia." Russia had previously annexed Ukrainian territory, and then launched a further invasion without any real provocation or justification other than a belief in an expansive view of Russian hegemony, a belief that Ukraine should be a suzerain to the Russian state and Russian people and that Russia should be able to determine the internal affairs and foreign relations of Ukraine. Those are the facts of what happened.

The abuses that take place in war do not discriminate based on the justness of the struggle. But when one country launches a war of choice and then engages in massive war crimes in its conduct of that war, the responsibility for those crimes rightly lies with them, and only with them.