[ SECRET POST #5847 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5847 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 51 secrets from Secret Submission Post #837.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[meadowphoenix]

I mean the character concept is very much not spock. i don't have any comment on the rest, but the audience is never supposed to think spock isn't an autonomous creature or ever be challenged by any machine/man dichotomy, because that's not the dichotomy with spock.

[(Anonymous)]

The details are different, yeah, but the broad-strokes concept is very similar - they're the same archetype of character.

And maybe that's part of the reasons that there are sometimes problems with Data's writing, because it feels like the TNG writers' starting point for Data was sitting down and saying "we need Spock but different"

[meadowphoenix]

They are very much not the same archetype of character lol. Human/Robot is an entirely different dichotomy than Reason/Emotion. They are not exploring the same things. It's not merely detail, it's the whole idea.

Not saying that Data doesn't occupy a "reason" spot in Trek, as Spock did. But there's plenty of different conflicts.

[(Anonymous)]

Reason-emotion is also a big part of Data's character and narrative though. That is very much one of the things that is going on with Data. It's not the *only* thing but it's absolutely present. In a different way than Spock, yes - and in some respect inverted - but it's definitely a big thematic element.

[(Anonymous)]

Well yes, they're the Outsider characters of their cast, just like Voyager's Doctor and 7 of 9. That character whose perspective on humanity is a little bit skewed, so they create an area for exploring things. Of course they're going to have a lot in common, while still being their own thing.

[meadowphoenix]

That doesn't make Data a low-rent version of Spock. Simply put, maybe you don't think data has an successful arc, but the arc itself could never be Spock's.

[(Anonymous)]

DA than the one you've been discussing this with

Yes, the characters are different and have different overall arcs, but Trek is an episodic series with varying writing quality/ style/ tone over its hundreds of episodes. So while they are not the same characters, I also don't think it's inaccurate for OP to state that Data functioned as the 'Spock' stand-in/analogue in many, many episodes, in that he presented a logical or precise response to a situation - a response that may or may not have clashed with other characters' perspectives, depending on the needs of the episode's narrative.

I think the main difference between Data and Spock is actually that Data is learning about humanity essentially from the perspective of what is essentially a child with Picard being his father figure, while Spock's character in TOS is very much a jaded, experienced adult who essentially has to be bullied into seeing the world from his human half's perspective (or recognising his unconscious biases) by his peers (usually either Kirk or McCoy).

So Data's overall arc is about becoming human, while Spock's is about accepting and seeing the value in his 'irrational' human side.

[meadowphoenix]

I think it's inaccurate because "'Spock' stand-in/analogue" is not what OP says. They say Data is a "bad imitation of Spock", and I don't think those two things are the same, and I also don't think the latter is accurate.

eta: I agree with your main difference, and I think that's a major difference, even to analogize him to Spoke on a new crew (where I agree that sometimes they are used in similar ways). They may stand in similar spots but they are coming from completely different directions and that informs the dynamics they introduce as characters in a group.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I see your point on the differences between an analogue and OP's point. I also disagree that Data is a 'bad' imitation. But I suppose I continue to sympathise with OP as I can understand how a fan might find Data annoying because of how he functions very similarly to Spock's character in episodes where his larger arc isn't relevant.

I also remember thinking that Data seemed quite emotional for an android that supposedly didn't understand human emotions - something that didn't bother me as I liked his character, but I could see bothering someone who was expecting more consistent 'robotic' characterisation.

The schtick criticism makes me think OP may be on the hard sci fi end of the Trek fandom spectrum, which does fit with their frustrations with Data as a character.

[meadowphoenix]

yeah, if OP thinks Data is annoying and not androidic enough, fair. my objection is strictly about the type of comparison to spock.