[ SECRET POST #5971 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5971 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[Monster Musume]



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04. [SPOILERS for The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel]




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05. [WARNING for Andrew Tate and associated discussion]




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06. [WARNING for discussion of child abuse]




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07. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia, antisemitism]

[Saturday Night Live]























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #853.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

To my understanding, the upset is over the international frustration with America's revisionist history of Cleopatra's race.

IMHO I think the anger is cloaked racism playing out as it does in service to white supremacy.
I don't have the education or background to make a strong statement on this.

I get the historical importance of getting the facts straight.

But on the other hand, we would do well to question why we white wash so much of history and make such a big deal out of something that stems from things that are much more complex and multi-layered than just Cleopatra the literal person who existed a long ass time ago before any of us on earth were born.

It's like engaging with people who want to complain about the new "The Little Mermaid". I get that some of the nitpicks are just nitpicks and fans have a right to nitpick, but if racists are coming in with bad faith takes so they can revel in their racism I don't want to be engaging with people like that. If I am to be critical of "The Little Mermaid" I would want to do my homework in not giving racists legit criticisms they can sprinkle in with their racist opinions.
Like, I'm not calling anyone a racist but I am aware that racists love to dehumanize Black women and so complaining that Halle Bailey isn't pretty enough or her hair isn't red enough...even if it's not your intent, it still gives into misogynoir. Participating legitimizes the racists' POV. You would rather have your little soapbox to do a fandom complaint than not give into systemic racism.
That is the issue and I know it's shit pill to swallow but at some point you just have to accept the choices that you make.
I'm aware people will call me a sensitive SJW. Naive and stupid and I read racism into everything.
But I would rather question how something amps up systemic racism than potentially feeding into it.

[(Anonymous)]

First of all, it is not 'America' that is trying to revise history here. It is a specific movement among African-American black nationalists. Describing it as 'American' misunderstands what is going on (and tbh it also undercuts your broader point in some ways but w/e).

Second, to me, the reason to object to rewriting Cleopatra as black is because it is a revisionist conspiratorial misreading of history. It's an abuse of history for political ends, it's not a valid or legitimate weapon in any kind of struggle against racism, and it's wrong. Revionist ethnonationalists who want to distort history are wrong and we should stand against nationalism that has to justify itself with bullshit conspiratorial historical mythmaking, whoever it's coming from.

Third, if you want to say that people objecting to Cleopatra being black are doing the same thing as people objecting to Ariel being black.... you really need to do a lot more to establish that argument. Because they aren't the same thing. One is a historical figure and one is a fixtop Al character. Similarly if you want to say that objecting to Cleopatra being depicted as black is cloaked racism you *have* to provide some kind of argument or justification for that.

[(Anonymous)]

Ariel is fictional. People making a big deal over her skin color are racist.

But if you're filming about a real person and calling it a documentary, get the known facts right. Cleopatra was Greek. End of issue. And we also have tons of documentaries on her; we don't need to retread over her story again, especially if they're going to get something so fundamental wrong and it just panders to conspiracy theorists.

There are tons of awesome actually black queens that haven't gotten a major documentary.

[(Anonymous)]

All of this. Ariel is fictional and can absolutely be black if the producers of the movie want, and like you said, making a big deal over that is indeed racist.

Cleopatra was real. She wasn't black. There are many, many African queens who WERE in fact black, so if they wanted to do a documentary about a black African queen, it isn't as if there was any shortage of potential subjects to pick from.

[(Anonymous)]

I stopped right at "America's revisionist history of Cleopatra's race." You are absolutely clueless if you think it's at all mainstream for "America" in its popular culture or academically - even at like, elementary school level - to claim that Cleopatra was black. That's 21st century, mainly terminally-online thing. If you say "Cleopatra" to the average US citizen, they're not going to picture a black woman.

[(Anonymous)]

No, they're probably going to picture Elizabeth Taylor, who is also very much not Egyptian.

[(Anonymous)]

Neither was Cleopatra, who was Greek.

[(Anonymous)]

You're right and I'm glad you said it.

[(Anonymous)]

They're really not right at all. The truth is still important.