[ SECRET POST #6005 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6005 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 10 secrets from Secret Submission Post #858.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[case]

Name the fandom. And repeats, etc.

(If you think something in this thread is a troll, please ignore it! Conversation is fine, but OT wank makes stuff harder to keep track of in this thread. Thanks.)

(frozen comment)

[fscom]

DAILY LINKS:

General comments → Off-topic discussion thread

Games thread → Thread for games/memes/etc.

[fscom]

01. https://i.imgur.com/CZ2zNUE.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, I feel this is probs wankbait rather than a genuine secret, but I do feel that it's different to write fic of a published book/a movie/a show because all of those people are getting paid for it while doing that to another fan just feels dirty. All the fans are on the same 'level' so it just seems like a dick move to do that.

[(Anonymous)]

I just can’t imagine an AI generating anything remotely worthwhile if I asked it to finish any of my favorite WIPs. Whether it’s ethical doesn’t even seem relevant at this point. But if someone manages to get something satisfying out of it, good for them.

[feotakahari]

100% agreed. I watched an attempt to get someone to explain why this was bad, and it reminded me of when Jonathan Haidt tries to get someone to explain why it’s bad to use a flag to clean a toilet. They switch arguments on a dime, and when they run out, they just say it’s bad anyway, because the real issue is simply that it makes them feel icky.

[(Anonymous)]

People who write fic are leagues more passionate about it than most creators who actually get paid for their work. Also, it's far more likely that fanfic would be taken over by AI than actual books/TV shows/movies. So I can see where fic writers are upset about someone putting their work into an AI program and essentially training it to write like them.

The real question is why doesn't someone feed their favorite book into AI and see what it creates from that?

[(Anonymous)]

Holy shit.

I guess you don't see anything wrong with taking someone's fic and posting it to other sites that the author doesn't use. Why not just take someone's fic, find and replace the names and then just post it in another fandom. JFC. Good use of a secret, your lack of awareness is disgusting.

[meadowphoenix]

I mean if people are finishing fic in privately their own space, that's whatever to me, and yeah I think people decrying that are a little hypocritical.

but people posting word for word copies online are on some bullshit. and people feeding that copied part to chatgpt or whatever are further on some bullshit.

like essentially the difference to me is where it goes and how much is taken from the original. fic replicates characters and settings. finishing and posting someone else's fic is replicating the part of the fic that is original content imo. which is just shitty.

remember when cassandra clair got in hot water for copying shows and books in her fic? she should have and that's the difference to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I pretty much agree.

I do think it’s a bit inconsiderate to start posting your own continuation of a fic that someone else is clearly in the middle of writing. Like, you can do it and nobody can stop you, but you may not make a great impression with your fellow fans. But I’ve also never actually seen anyone do that, so it really doesn’t strike me as a rampant problem.

However, if the fic is abandoned, or hasn’t been updated in like a year or more? Then yeah, as far as I’m concerned there is nothing remotely wrong with someone writing their own continuation of it. Honestly, good for them, out there making their own closure, like a boss. I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with them posting it--just as long as they give credit where credit is due, and also make sure readers understand that this fic is not affiliated with the fic which inspired it and does not reflect on that fic or its author in any way.

The AI thing feels more complicated to me. I know my knee-jerk feeling is that I don’t want AI-generated fic mixed in side-by-side with human-generated fic at all, and I definitely don’t feel good about the thought of people posting AI-generated continuations of other people’s fics. It feels insensitive and icky and spammy and hollow, and I don’t like it. But I honestly haven’t dug deep enough into the whole AI issue to be confident in making a coherent and consistent ethical argument about what’s basically okay and what’s capital-W Wrong, and what falls somewhere in between.

I'm not a fence-sitter. I definitely recognize that AI opens up a whole new dimension by which artists can (and will) be exploited and screwed over and further disempowered as artists and as professionals, and that fucking sucks and is awful and hopefully it goes without saying that I'm against it. I just...honestly don't know enough about the topic to feel confident in making any broad statements about what's ethical and what's unethical where AI is concerned.

(If anybody has watched any great youtube videos discussing this topic that they feel like reccing, I would totally check them out though!)

[(Anonymous)]

You... only just noticed, OP?

Fanfic writers have been zealously protective of their own work since forever. Not all of them, no, but a significant proportion.

(For the record, while I'm pretty open about people spinning things off my stories - and say so in a blanket permission statement - if I ever see someone feeding my work into a glorified text autofill generator, I will be formally cursing them. It's so monstrously disrespectful.)

[(Anonymous)]

I have to admit, I giggle a little when I see fic authors getting het up over the idea of transformative works based on their fics. Like the secret originator, I feel like they are displaying a lack of self awareness.with that said, I have written alternate endings for exactly two fics in my life, with one posted privately to an old LJ and the other written down in a paper journal. I wouldn't consider posting them publicly. But I did then add a note to my AO3 profile giving blanket permission to do anything a user wants to do with any of my fics or AU universes.

[(Anonymous)]

I have to agree this feels like wankbait.

Still, let's break it down a bit. Copyright wise, as a FAN, you don't own the IP. You can't make money off of it. However, as a fan, you do own the words you have written. Not necessarily the ideas, but the way you executed the ideas. (ideas aren't copyrightable.) If people steal your words, it's still plagiarism. Money or no money involved. 50 words or more it's theft. But the point is, you are adding to the canon creatively by adding ideas to it.

(And as a fan, you aren't showing the original IP holder the story, so everyone can be happy and play with their ideas without thought of 'theft' being involved either direction. SIGH)

the "AI" or rather the pattern generator algorithm is basically, taking 1000s of stories and pieces of information ripped from both fandom and from trad publishing etc, and clipping them together by whatever word most likely comes next. It cannot set up plots. It can't write jokes. It doesn't think ahead. It can't. It doesn't "create" any new ideas into the canon. It can only draw from what is in it's dataset. Calling it AI is a misnomer.

Okay, you create a data set of a series of TV show episodes like Bones. You ask it to "Create" a new script or a new ending. All it's going to do is paste together a bunch of chopped up lines from other Bones episodes. It's not new. It's not creative. Because it can't be. It's just taking patterns and regurgitating them. It's not ADDING anything. Thus, it won't be adding anything to whatever story you're feeding into it. And possibly not closing up any plot threads either. (Srsly, don't play with these things even, it's not worth it.)

Then we have the fandom community complication. No one, fandom or trad author/artist wants their works being fed into a pattern generator owned by Musk or Google. (Artists are having problems with techbros feeding art WIPs into "AI"s and then trying to claim ownership of the art.) But at least in the writing sector, trad authors shield themselves from fan works, but if you feed a work into one of these pattern generators and then POST it into fandom spaces, the original fandom author might not be able to shield themselves and um, will rightly get annoyed at you stealing their words to feed into a pattern generator built out of more stolen words! You get blacklisted, AO3 takes it down, drama, no one has a good day.

Just contact the author. Ask for a summary of the ending. ask if you can write an AU of said ending. This is the community aspect trad authors don't get to have b/c fans have shat the bed and trad publishers don't want to deal with the lawyers. If the author doesn't respond, cite, say it's inspired by, link the story and ONLY post what you have written. If the author contacts you and wants you to take it down, do so! Welcome to the social side of fandom! Play nicely and be polite!

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not 100% sure it's the same, but I agree it seems a little weird to complain about having one's fanfic being given the fanfic treatment.

[pantswarrior]

I... kinda thought I got what they were saying here, and then I seriously thought "How would I feel if someone wrote an ending to one of my unfinished fics?" (Not that I have many out there because I'm pretty good at not posting anything unless I'm sure I can complete it.)

And honestly? I would feel flattered, and also if their story went somewhere entirely different than I had planned, probably inspired to finish the ending I meant to write. And if it turned out an awful lot like I was planning, I'd be really impressed that they managed to "get" what I was trying to do with the story, and hey, takes pressure off me.

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/TeMvU1t.png

[(Anonymous)]

because they turned a monster with 30+ years of iconic appearance and turned into a Jurassic Park TRex. it's not that deep.

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/nSWaGr7.png

[fscom]

04. https://i.imgur.com/rsbsP8J.png

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like this is less about getting old and more about not being trapped in a timeloop. And sure, you wouldn't age in a timeloop, but if you were Benjamin Button you still would only get to be surprised by that scene once.

[fscom]

05. https://i.imgur.com/CeiuRRY.png

[(Anonymous)]

Relevant to your interests: Tiaras are 50% off at Claire's.

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/oYc6Hdp.png

[starfleetbrat]

"every single alien race in a vast universe being played by white actors"

Am I misunderstanding this secret? because that is Worf, played by Michael Dorn, who is a black actor.

[fscom]

07. https://i.imgur.com/W1ARMlC.png

[(Anonymous)]

I used to love this as a kid. Haven't dared to revisit it though as current me probably wouldn't handle the cheese.

[fscom]

NS, NF, etc.

[fscom]

Official advertise your fandom-related event thread.

RULES FOR THIS:
1. NO images bigger than 600x600 in either direction (banners, et cetera).
2. ONE POST PER USER under this thread.
3. What IS allowed: roleplay advertisements, fandom comms, fandom events, things like that.
4. What is NOT allowed: anything for profit, any kind of fic/art commissions, seeking 1-on-1 RP, that kind of thing.

[fscom]

General comments:

(If the thread contains spoilery/triggery content please warn/post as 2nd comment so it collapses!
Please collapse images, too!)

Weekend prospects?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm going to have to make an impromptu trip to Boston sometime soon.

What's happening with everyone else?

[fscom]

Games thread!