[ SECRET POST #6018 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6018 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 16 secrets from Secret Submission Post #860.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

DA but by example

1. He has a very good reason to fucking hate demonic cultivation. A few reasons, actually. Even barring the "is this WWX" angle, he knows it's a Bad Thing, demonstrably. Yeah, he's gonna be HELLA HARSH about it. It's not a good trait, sure, but it's not damning.

2. Oh no. Jiang Cheng is being dramatically angry and everyone knows it.

3. "Tried to kill Wen Ning" overlooks the part where Wen Ning is a walking corpse and all of the horrific shit that that entails. No, it's not Wen Ning's fault, and yes JC owed a debt to the /living/ WN, but it's also not a completely out-there response.

And 4. I love WWX and it REALLY sucks when people downplay his fear, but, related to point 1, I actually do think it's fair for JC to be an asshole in that scene. Is it nice? No, of course not. It's petty and cruel. But it's not like it comes from nowhere.

I completely agree that JC isn't a woobie. But he's also not a monster.

[(Anonymous)]

He has a very good reason to fucking hate demonic cultivation. A few reasons, actually. Even barring the "is this WWX" angle, he knows it's a Bad Thing, demonstrably. Yeah, he's gonna be HELLA HARSH about it. It's not a good trait, sure, but it's not damning.

The whole point of the novel was that what WWX was doing WASN'T demonic cultivation. It was the Ghost Path, which in that philosophy was actually better for the dead than regular cultivation as he liberated more souls into the reincarnation cycle that would otherwise have been completely destroyed. JC went after people who tried to do what WWX did or just mimic'd his general vibe. Just because he and the rest of the world couldn't tell the difference doesn't mean that anyone he went after was a) actually practicing REAL demonic cultivation and b) did anything to deserve death, because no one deserves torture, which the narrative ADMITS he does.

"Tried to kill Wen Ning" overlooks the part where Wen Ning is a walking corpse and all of the horrific shit that that entails. No, it's not Wen Ning's fault, and yes JC owed a debt to the /living/ WN, but it's also not a completely out-there response.

Just because Wen Ning was dead doesn't mean he wasn't IN THERE. I dunno if you noticed, but reverence and service to the dead is kinda a big deal in Chinese culture. There's a whole thing of the fierce corpses causing problems because they weren't given proper rites and debts weren't paid. And not only was he dead but Wen Ning was STILL IN THERE. It doesn't negate JC's debt to him, regardless of if WN is alive or dead. For this culture it is ABSOLUTELY a completely out-there response.

I actually do think it's fair for JC to be an asshole in that scene. Is it nice? No, of course not. It's petty and cruel. But it's not like it comes from nowhere.

It is not fair. Torture is NEVER justified. That scene was a torture scene. I agree it is petty and cruel and it doesn't come out of nowhere. It is also torture. We have actual textual scenes of JC torturing someone. He tortures people. Fact. End of story.

I also agree, he's not a monster (in his society). All I said was that I don't want to read about a main character who does things like that, but OP should do what they like! It's not like I even said that OP was a horrible person for wanting it. Just saying that I didn't. And people have jumped in to try to make JC into someone he's not.

[(Anonymous)]

Never said he didn't torture, just said he had his reasons. You're welcome to your opinions too, obviously, but you realize that you're also making JC into something he's not by only focusing on the absolute in-a-blank-box morality of JC's actions and not the in-the-world-he's-part-of/is-also-a-victim morality he's acting in.

IE being an awful bitch to your (to his knowledge!) dick of a brother isn't the same as breaking the Geneva conventions.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I haven't said nice things about JC because that isn't the topic of conversation. I've said repeatedly that I LIKE JC and that he's a morally grey character (i.e. not "absolute in a blank box morality"). So please don't accuse me of making a statement I haven't. I've said he's not a monster. I will say he's not an irredeemable villain. I like his role in the novel. He's just not someone I would want to read about as a protagonist because I don't like reading stories that focus on people like him.

There's a massive difference between being an "awful bitch to his dick of a brother" and torture. If you want to go the Geneva Conventions route: A 1999 United Nations-approved manual lists the "arranging of conditions for attacks by animals such as dogs" as a "torture method." And that's just for general people. JC knew WWX had cynophopbia and could not logic out that JC would not ACTUALLY let the dog attack him. It's torture. Full stop.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay.