fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6286 ]

[ SECRET POST #6286 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6286 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

[Homebrewing]

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #898.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

(deleted comment)

Um no. Neo pronouns are not only used by the trans community.

Where is anyone not respecting someone’s pronouns? Changing neopronouns in fic to they/them isn’t transphobic or denying anyone their pronouns. And if I encountered someone who chose those as their pronouns then of course I’d use them. But I never have. I’ve literally only seen a few pickme girls use them and usually in place of someone’s chosen pronouns of they/them.

Pick me is about women throwing other women under the bus in favor of men's approval or attention, not someone using pronouns you find cringe.

DA

Not necessarily. The usage has broadened to mean "person who acts against the interests of their own (typically marginalized) group in the hope of obtaining majority favour" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pick-me) based on context.

You're describing, specifically, a "pick-me girl" in the context of sexism which isn't what AYRT said and isn't what the thread is about.

Hopefully your response here is not "but words mean things and shouldn't change" in a thread about neopronouns, but the irony would be funny.

You are in the right but you are arguing with trolls. Save your blood pressure and scroll on by.

Where is anyone not respecting someone’s pronouns?

in the secret, friendo

DA

Fictional characters aren't real people, friendo.

Fictional characters are not real people. HTH.

Do you also think it's okay to call Black characters the N-word because they aren't real?

That's a ridiculous comparison.

DA

If the story calls for it. Are you one of those people who wants to ban Huck Finn because it's an accurate and in-character story of a specific time period? Blazing Saddles should be censored for using a word you don't like? Rap doesn't count as an art form?

Story-telling is about the human experience, and some of those experiences are not nice. Putting psychobable in them doesn't make them better stories, it just glosses over the humanity.

Where on the astral plane did the neopronoun-using gender-queer touch you?

People lie; people adopt signifiers to draw attention to themselves; people use identity to manipulate and gain power over others. To say that it's always transphobic to reject a pronoun is to say that it's perfectly fine to do all of this, that there can be no way of noticing it, acknowledging it, and calling it out.

You are advocating for the use of identity to get away with treating others poorly, to being narcissistic, and to, in far too many cases, being emotionally abusive. Someone does not suddenly become a good, untouchable person by declaring themselves trans or nonbinary, and not only do you excuse the mistreatment of others by failing to recognize this, but you doom the cause. People do not want to line up behind self-centered histrionic assholes! And if you continually prop up the self-centered histrionic assholes, and make excuses for them, and paint anyone who calls them out as bigots, then guess what? People are going to think that the movement is made up of self-centered histrionic assholes.

Someone who adopts a ridiculous, tumblr-generated neopronoun is an attention-seeking jackass and should not be taken seriously. Period. They are someone who is using the existence of trans people to get away with acting like a fool, and we would all do better to disavow them rather than indulge them.

+1000

You mean like how trans women lie to sneak into women's bathrooms and assault them? Or not like that at all no, you respect REAL trans people, it's just those lying manipulative teenage girl transtrenders?

Sorry, just trying to gauge what level of TERFdom you've reached here.

Let me pose a question to you. Which do you think is better for trans rights in the long term: calling out and disavowing those who behave abominably while hiding behind a trans identity (and yes, that includes people lying in order to gain access to women, primarily with sex offenders suddenly declaring that they're trans at sentencing -- and then going on to assault female inmates); or arguing that such things never happen, and that hatred is the only reason for anyone to ever bring it up? What do you think is more likely to make people distrust the cause?

When people do not clean their own house, the bad actors they've allowed to shelter within it eventually bring it down. It always happens that way. And even were that not the case, why in the world should any of us want shitty people in our communities? If someone is behaving in ways that we wouldn't accept from the out-group, in ways may even have caused us to flee the out-group in the first place, why would we not boot them out?

"lying in order to gain access to women, primarily with sex offenders suddenly declaring that they're trans at sentencing -- and then going on to assault female inmates"

Stats please.

Nicola Sturgeon was brought down as First Minister in part due to two rapists in a single week being slated to go to women's prison after declaring that they were trans.

Caldwell prison in California is in the midst of defending against a lawsuit brought by female inmates (including an actual trans woman) who were harassed and assaulted by male inmates that got into their prison by claiming to be trans. These men dropped the pretense once they were with the female inmates, who took to sleeping in shifts in order to protect one another.

"Karen Smith" was sentence to life in prison a few years back after assaulting female inmates and getting one of them pregnant. His supposed trans identity developed during sentencing for the crime for which he was initially imprisoned.

I could keep going, if you like.

But the fact is that there is no benefit to denying these cases and others like them, and every benefit to saying, "these are predators who are exploiting a marginalized identity for their own gain, and we condemn them." Denying it makes it look like the community is trying to cover for it; acknowledging and condemning it allows the community to make it very clear that we don't allow people to get away with despicable behavior just because they claim to be one of us. And it allows the community to draw a firm distinction between actual trans people who just want to live their lives in peace, and awful people who would poison any group they happened to latch onto.

I am still not clear, because no one here has even bothered to try and explain it, why anyone would want to protect absolute shitheads who give their community a bad name and are likely to hurt other community members.

Those are case studies. You can find case studies for anything. I asked for stats.

DA
"Give me information".

Gets the information.

"No, I don't like this one and I will dismiss it on a technicality because I can't argue against it!"

No... I didn't say "give me information." I specifically asked for statistics. People will be afraid of stupid shit that isn't common simply because they know case studies. They don't understand that the case studies are ALL THAT EVER HAPPENED. Meaning that they happen at a rate of .0000000568 per 100k capita. Which is not a problem worth worrying over. Which is why I asked for stats.

So. Stats? Otherwise all you have are case studies, which are less than worthless.

Do you not understand that this kind of dismissal of any time something happens MAKES. US. LOOK. BAD.

It does not matter if it happens infrequently. It only has to happen ONCE, and for us to deny that it happened or say it's "less than worthless" that it happened, for it to make it look like we're perfectly fine with it, and that at a minimum we don't give a shit about anyone who was hurt by it. "It's not a problem that that girl was raped in the school bathroom, because that's just a case study." How do you think that sounds to people? To her parents? To her friends? To her?

What is so hard about saying, "yeah, those people are shitty, and they're also liars?" What is the point of jumping through all manner of hoops to avoid saying it? Who does it benefit?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2024-03-23 19:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2024-03-23 19:18 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2024-03-23 19:45 (UTC) - Expand

DA

(Anonymous) - 2024-03-24 01:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2024-03-24 12:35 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2024-03-24 21:42 (UTC) - Expand

Like man, if only special snowflake enbies stopped using neopronouns, all the legislation being written up and pushed through to prevent trans people from living would disappear and trans people would be loved and respected by all. It's that easy. You've figured it out.

DA

Maybe you should go read that again, but slower. You seem to have some issues with reading comprehension.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only