[ SECRET POST #092 ]

[grayout.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #092 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 61 secrets from Secret Submission Post #014.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Sunday, April 8th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: Here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ew-younerd.livejournal.com]

Wow, I'm astounded by the sheer dumbassery.

To address the issue of the matter being blown out of proportion, most of the people whom have been stating their opinion against the secret (that are not anonymous) have not used any hateful language. As stated before, the secret-maker is cloaked in the secure veil of internet anonymity. There can be no personal attacks declared on their character, there can only be disagreement with their opinion. I will not hate them for hating gays, I will not tell them it is not their right to write slash fanfiction while simultaneousely hating gays. However, a generalized statement in such a manner is going to get backlash.

Your personal experience has no bearing on any universal law or statistics, so sharing your personal experience with lesbians pretty much is a moot point in any argument concerning the secret maker. I was content to just make a comment saying "you're gay, lol" to the secret maker. However, the ensuing replies that somehow projected their own feelings on to a statement that left little room for interpretation baffled me and I furthered into questioning why they believe such things.

Your apathetic atittude towards societal stagnation of acceptance of anything different never got anyone anywhere. You're acting as if there were personal attacks in rebuttal against the secret maker. In fact, most have nothing to really say to the secret maker. They said "I hate gays." What can be said in return? "Well, uh, I don't and I think that's dumb?"

You're failing to differentiate between the opinion of an individual whom is making a sole statement that is applicable to an entire population regardless of personal character or creed, and someone disagreeing with hateful words. Sharing a different perspective in the long run is not disrespecting an opinion.

Thats also where this comparison ends. Majority of kids don't grow up having their parents tell them day after day that being a lesbian is wrong. These opinions come from society.

And where did their parents grow up? Yes, that is correct, in a society. And a good portion of parents would get irrationally angry at their children for coming out as homosexual.

Everything you are stating can be used in reverse-rebuttal against you. You speak of not getting defensive or wanting to change someone's opinion, of not caring what society thinks, and yet you're conversing with someone to do just that: change their opinion and get them to stop what they are saying.

If you are using your friends' personal experiences to prove a point, this is known as the logical fallacy called "proof by example", and it will get you nowhere in debate. If you are someone who thinks that just because oppression will never stop, that people are whining and blowing things out of proportion for fighting it instead of just 'living and let living' (this is also a fallacy since you are indicating it should only be applicable to the oppressed and not the oppressers, otherwise the live and let live rule would insinuate they stop the oppression), then you have a rather naive outlook on the world. People have social influence. You've been socially effected by everything around you, and if you can admit that then I have hope for you, my young child. But if you cannot, that is where this conversation ends forever.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

Okay, look, seriously, stop this.

You're trying not to be hateful and you're trying not to be condescending (or maybe you are, it comes off that way 95% of the time), but you're "astounded by the sheer dumbassery" of this "young child."

If you're conversing to change the opinions of someone, you're not going to get them to change their minds by insulting them and generally being bitchy about the subject. In fact, you're just going to alienate people even more -- and you ARE doing it; I've had a number of people complain to me, personally, about it and how you're making them-as-a-group look bad.

Please. Just stop.

[ew-younerd.livejournal.com]

Young child was a joke. I call everyone kiddo and young child, I'm nineteen, two years older than this person, I doubt they're going to cry about it.

I'm making people as a group look bad? Who? All I'm doing is sharing my opinion! Isn't that what this entire thing is about?

Anyways, the fact that I'm making an 'entire group' look bad brings me joy. Kind of like saying how campy gay men convert to stereotypes or saying I HATE GAY PEOPLE makes people as a group look bad.

:) Your hypocracy is cracking me up.

I'm not trying to change the opinions of anyone. And I didn't mean 'her' dumbassery, I meant the dumbassery of this still going on.

But okay okay, I'll shut up forever. You can freeze replies to me if you want or something, I don't care. The internet tears have made my heart grow three times its size today, and I'm so sorry that me debating with people hurt people's feelings :( I'll just make secrets about hating them instead, that way I can get people to stick up for me!

[ew-younerd.livejournal.com]

..hypocrisy.

See? I'm an idiot, too :O

[grayout.livejournal.com]

I'm just telling you what they said; don't shoot the messenger please.

If they don't cry about it, are they not insulted? I'm sorry, I don't understand where you're coming from. "I'M not insulted by this, so no one else should be?" There are ways to express opinions without being insulting at all.

That sarcasm really wasn't necessary.

[ew-younerd.livejournal.com]

You and I already came to an understanding. I thought this entire wank was done, but then someone drags it on a day later, claiming to 'just want to end it', but is clearly trying to put someone down for disagreeing, still.

I am honestly amused at people thinking ONE person is making THEM look bad. Why? Because I'm questioning what they think? I admit, I shouldn't have used the word dumbassery and I retract it. It was bitchy of me. I am just angry this is dragging on. And am aware I basically did no part in helping it stop by replying to this, but I felt it was necessary to point out the constant contradictory statements that are going on in this conversation.

That's not being condescending, it's showing someone that what they are saying has a double standard to it, just like how you've shown me that my 'hateful' language is a double standard.

If they don't cry about it, are they not insulted? I'm sorry, I don't understand where you're coming from. "I'M not insulted by this, so no one else should be?" There are ways to express opinions without being insulting at all.

That wasn't what I was trying to get, but okay. You can think that. I'm laughing at you coming to me telling me people are complaining about me making them look bad as a group, when those people were the ones that were sticking up for people just 'sharing their opinions' in the first place, no matter how relentless or incessantly offensive they may be.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

Actually, the group in question was "gay women" (probably due to those "lol internet dykes" comments, and them not wanting to be associated with this), not the people standing up for the secret.

And like I said, there are ways to make points, and to point out double standards, in a manner that isn't condescending. It's not the fact that you're pointing it out, it's the word choice and how you go about doing it, intended or not.

[ew-younerd.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to the group 'gay women', and I guess I'm not a real gay woman because I have offended every other one in sight.

So, gay women, this is my public apology to you: I am sorry that I apparently make you look bad. I tried to be the cool kid that sits with you at lunch, but now I know why you all suddenly 'had to go' whenever I sat down.

This is bs, the people on the other end have used similar wording trying to point out our 'intolerance' towards the secret maker. I don't care that a BNF hates gays. I don't care that people think campy gay men are evil. I'm not horribly offended by the secret. I just wanted to discuss this with people, but apparently I can't!! So never mind. It's not a big deal, anymore, I'll still call you and we're still on for dinner tomorrow night.

[convault]

But it's not really debating if you insult someone's intelligence right before typing a crapload of stuff you've said like, a million times before. They don't buy into your reasons, so uhh, find different ones?

Plus, being condescending about it isn't gonna make people agree if they hate your guts. Even if you're right, other people won't listen just 'cause of the way you're acting. Isn't that just wasting energy?

[ew-younerd.livejournal.com]

But that's the thing. I'm not trying to get people to agree with me. They are people on the internets. I don't care. I just was pointing out everything she said made no sense objectively in her argument because it could be used directly against the point she was making. Which isn't what I've done to other people, but I guess when you've typed 'tl;dr' stuff people skim and assume that.

I have endless amounts of energy, so that's kind of impossible to do. It comes with being high on life and being a follower of the Lord.

[convault]

But there's no point in arguing if you're not trying to get people to agree! Like, what's your motive for arguing, besides changing minds? And what makes sense to you won't make sense to other people, but if maybe you say it from her point of view, you'd see logic.

Ooh, and you're religious? Isn't christianity/catholicism/like every other religion totally against homosexuality...

Agnostic? :D

[ovendoor.livejournal.com]

Okay im sorry, im not hear to cause ANYMORE drama, but ffs this has to be said.

Wow, I'm astounded by the sheer dumbassery.

There was no need to say something so crude to ilovehugs. You really should be ashamed of yourself, just because you're on the internet does not mean you have the right to say such a thing to someone and think you'll get away with it.
Normally i wouldn't be so offended on someone else's behalf, but she is a friend, and therefore i will stick up for her. I hope you'll actually understand where the hell im coming from and just apologise.

[bubble.livejournal.com]

OH MY FUCKING GOD.

Do you people read?

I admit, I shouldn't have used the word dumbassery and I retract it. It was bitchy of me. I am just angry this is dragging on.

And I didn't mean 'her' dumbassery, I meant the dumbassery of this still going on.

;_;

[ovendoor.livejournal.com]

Jesus Christ LMAO you need to calm the hell down XDDDDD

[bubble.livejournal.com]

Just because I'm using capslock doesn't mean I'm not calm. :)

[ovendoor.livejournal.com]

LOL OKAY THEN

[grayout.livejournal.com]

An apology to me is not an apology to the person it was directed at, you know. Not everyone follows all threads. There was no need to attack quaaaack for stating so.

[bubble.livejournal.com]

When ew_younerd said she retracted her dumbassery comment, I assumed she was speaking generally and not just to you. Please forgive, mod-sama. And yeah, well. quaaaack's friend just started something that should've been DEAD and everyone's feelings are getting heated up again. Once again, please forgive me for attacking her~ :)

[baegopa.livejournal.com]

I did not know it was dead D: And I apologize sincerely for reviving it...

[ew-younerd.livejournal.com]

I took that back. It was bitchy of me to say and I didn't mean it. I'm sorry.

[ovendoor.livejournal.com]

Ahhh ¦D much better, it's okay im not angry at you anymore, thank you for apologising :3

[baegopa.livejournal.com]

You've been socially effected by everything around you, and if you can admit that then I have hope for you, my young child.

Do you enjoy making assumptions about people? Because this is what the very people you hate- actually do, back to you.

[ew-younerd.livejournal.com]

Do you enjoy back rubs? ;)

[icemilk.livejournal.com]

rofl, I blame anime for this whole internet movement of "if you believe in yourself you can achieve anything!!!" as an actual response to all of the real world's problems. Disregarding you know, uh, actual statistics that prove that gays are at a much a higher risk for psychopathology and suicide and of course that's their fault, for not believing!

Believe it!