[ SECRET POST #6442 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6442 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 36 secrets from Secret Submission Post #921.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/aUMO5W8.jpeg

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. I think she's emblematic of the whole stupid both-sides-ism. She's the leftist counterpart to the nazi child masturbating in the bathroom, and as such she has to have done something wrong since Both Sides! But in actual fact, she was pressured by her family to try and convince Marta, felt bad about it and immediately apologized when she next saw her. She was the only one left in that family worth anything.

[(Anonymous)]

I saw her as emblematic of the belief that people who are outgoing about social justice are always secretly hypocrites who only want to make themselves look good and never actually cared about social justice.

Even if she's not meant to be that and we're supposed to find her sympathetic (it's ambiguous whether Marta would end up helping her or not and there are clues that point to both possibilities) I think most viewers ended up with the former impression of her.

[(Anonymous)]

DA - first paragraph was spot on for my impression of her.

But now I want to go and rewatch to see with new perspective if I end up with the same take away.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT My read on her character was that she's the kind of person who supports social justice only up to the point where she has to materially give up some privileges. Which describes a lot of people on the mid-to-left side of the spectrum regardless of the finer points of their beliefs.

[(Anonymous)]

That's the rest of the family; they talked and talked about supporting Marta and that she was one of the family, until she got all their money. For Meg, it doesn't fit with the scene where she makes the phone call and the camera pans over to her entire family monitoring her. It made it obvious that what she was saying wasn't what she actually wanted. That was the only scene where she did anything against Marta, and it was under duress.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean... it was under pressure, but it wasn't under duress. She could have told her family to fuck off.

She's still easily the least bad of the family members and her doing that is much, much less bad than what any of the other ones did. It's a very mildly shitty and relatively forgivable thing and I don't think that we're supposed to hate her, but I do think that her willingness to go along with her family's BS towards Marta is supposed to be a black mark on her character to at least some degree.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, cause teenagers/college students who are good people always make good decisions under pressure and never cave to anything...

[(Anonymous)]

I mean like. Yes, there are reasons that it would have been extremely hard for her to do the right thing. But also, she still failed to do the right thing. I feel like I am extending her character an appropriate amount of understanding for the context, and I'm not saying it's unrealistic writing.

Like. In general, I don't get this approach to morality. It's understandable why she made the choice she did, and many other people would have made the same choice. It's still clearly the wrong choice - it's the wrong choice in the story's universe, and it would be the wrong choice in real life.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of people (including Rian Johnson, probably) think she could have just lied or kept quiet about Marta being undocumented with zero consequences other than not getting the inheritance. What they are lucky not to know is that a lot of parents when they raise you will teach you that you cannot lie or keep secrets from them, because they WILL find out eventually and God help you when they do.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes because God forbid a leftist can actually also be an asshole hypocrite who does wrong shit. Couldn't happen. Shouldn't ever be portrayed that way in media. Because leftists are flawless saints who can do no wrong.

Like, fuck, I'm a leftist myself but this whole "it's badwrong to portray leftists as even slightly bad and the only reason someone does it is to push a badwrong both sides narrative" thing is such sanctimonious hypocrisy it's not even funny anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

She told her family that Marta's mother was undocumented, which was then used to try and blackmail her.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I watched the movie, thanks. She did nothing wrong. Anyone who thinks they'd risk their psycho family's punishments, not to mention trouble with the law, to shield an undocumented immigrant thinks way too highly of themselves. I'll believe you when you're actually sheltering people in danger in your house.

[(Anonymous)]

She wouldn’t have had to shield an undocumented immigrant. She would have just had to not betray Marta’s trust and say what she knows.

Saying “I personally wouldn’t volunteer blackmail information for a friend” now means I have to shelter people in danger in my house???

She did do something wrong. Whether or not it was understandable is fine to debate, but it was something wrong. She betrayed her friend’s trust to let her family blackmail her into giving back the inheritance. She did do something wrong here, and no amount of “actually it’s understandable that she caved under perceived pressure” makes it un-wrong, even if you are also right.

[(Anonymous)]

Simply put, this is a counter-textual reading based on you bringing your baggage to the text instead of anything actually in the text.

[(Anonymous)]

This is just such a nihilistic view. No one has to be moral, because everyone else is probably immoral, so it's fine to just do whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for mansplaining the very thing OP is conflicted about as if OP doesn't even know what it was.

[(Anonymous)]

I’m a woman.

[ariakas]

I admit I liked the film and thought it was funny, but as political commentary it is nothing but vapid both-sidesism and the characters are intended (and portrayed) as one-dimensional strawmen representing a straw version of a particular ideology or attitude.

And the straw man of that particular political leaning is that leftist college students are coddled/spoiled/insincere in their beliefs/unwilling to stick their necks out when it really matters or affects them directly, and therefore the things they say when trying to raise awareness can be safely ignored and discarded (just as the straw version is that all young people on the alt right are loser-pervert-incels who would cry in a real conflict, which is also played out with that character beat-for-beat - which is why they too can safely be ignored as they will never rise to become a real threat, and we can all be content in smug centrist liberalism to do absolutely nothing about activists or reactionaries).

[(Anonymous)]

But why is only the leftist strawman bad? Either it's all strawmen are bad or not. You can't just pick and choose just because you like one ideology better. And a lot of leftist college students ARE coddled, spoiled and insincere about the things they preach and also incredibly misinformed about some of their pet issues. Which is fine, young people can make mistakes. But that doesn't make them immune to criticism and that's what it is in this movie - a satirical criticism of a certain type of leftist slacktivist, of which there are plenty.

[ariakas]

But why is only the leftist strawman bad?

I didn't say it was. In fact, my comment said exactly the opposite. All of the straw-political-stand-ins were bad, and that is what made the film's political commentary so vapid and worthless.

Reading comprehension on fs continues to be at a premium.

[(Anonymous)]

I should have clarified that this was more meant for the general discussion of this secret, not in particular your comment (should have probably replied to a different one). Because most others only criticise the leftist strawmanning, not the others. But yeah, this misunderstanding is on me.

[ariakas]

Fair enough. It would have been a stronger film re: its message had it not done this but also very possibly much less funny. And since the humour drove its success, I'm sure Rian Johnson is crying very hard about critiques of his shallow liberal politics on his bed of $$$$$$$$$$$ lmao.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, I just don't really think a satirical whodunit comedy movie really HAS to have a flawless execution in terms of political commentary/message. Though it can be argued that it's equal parts of both in intention but that's probably a matter of interpretation.

[ariakas]

IMO framing it around a highly politicized issue (immigration) utilizing a political allegory (who "deserves" to inherit the wealth of America) invites fair critique re: the execution of its message in a way that other satirical pieces might not; ultimately, strawmanning alternative perspectives and centering the debate on what is also effectively a Straw Immigrant (literally nobody - and I mean nobody, not even full-on christofascists) is arguing that white-passing, fluent-English-speaking, conventionally attractive modest intelligent straight young cis women with in-demand feminized caring professions who immigrated via wholly legal means aren't "allowed" to be in the country or inherit its wealth with their hard work. It provokes no thought and means nothing; it's the graham cracker of immigration discourse, flavourless self-soothing pablum: let us all pat ourselves on the back for loving Marta, we are reasonable people, unlike those people, who think like that.

Johnson's SW film was similar: lip service to liberal politics with a vapid message; enough wit and entertainment not to mind that it says nothing and means nothing.

A lot of fun to watch though.