fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6489 ]

Like, for some, it went from, "people should be mindful of the possibility of spreading COVID" to, "I should never get sick from anything?"

Maybe it's just in my circle, I dunno. But I have a couple of friends who now flip their shit anytime they or someone in their family gets sick, as if occasionally getting sick is not just a part of life. One in particular is on the warpath because her 8-year-old caught something, and she's pretty sure he caught it from his closest friend. I've got a kid the same age, and my perspective is that, well...unless you keep them in a bubble, kids are gonna get sick! It's normal! In fact, it's kind of good for them, because it teaches their immune systems what to do.

She didn't do this before 2020. If he got sick while he was an infant or a toddler, the tone was, "aw poor little guy," not, "how dare someone be inconsiderate enough to get my child sick!" I'm legit concerned she won't let him see his best friend anymore.

And the thing is that like, to a certain extent I get it. The pandemic was traumatizing for so many people, and trauma changes how you react to things. But at the same time, there's got to be some kind of balance, some recognition that your responses are not in line with what's really going on.

Not sure where I'm going with this. Mostly needed to get it out.

I think finding out just how *many* self-absorbed, negligent assholes were out there during the pandemic didn't do favors to the mental/emotional health of a lot of people.

I think it was more the apocalyptic tone of everything, particularly given that those awful, selfish people were largely right, i.e. masking and lockdowns didn't do shit. The single best thing you can do to protect yourself from COVID is to wash your hands regularly.

That's not true - masking and lockdowns delayed the infections so the healthcare system didn't collapse. And getting vaccines so quickly was goddamn amazing. I worked in person in healthcare all through and it could have been so much worse.

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 03:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 04:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 05:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 14:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

ariakas - 2024-10-12 11:43 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 13:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

ariakas - 2024-10-12 13:43 (UTC) - Expand

This is an insane statement. The "wash hands" thing is and always was cope/industry productivity compromise, because it's easy to do and doesn't require workplaces to install costly ventilation or filters. Fomite transmission of COVID-19 is negligible (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35512326/). COVID-19 is an airborne disease, and this was unfortunately known months into the pandemic but was ignored because it was too costly/too disruptive to treat it that way, so politically-compromised public health organizations kept communicating that it was droplet-transmitted and kept telling people to take droplet precautions long after research conclusively determined otherwise (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36763042/).

The two things you can do to protect yourself and others is are 1) wear a fit-tested N95 in high risk situations (e.g., large indoor gatherings with minimal ventilation), and 2) stay home when sick.

TBH I am one of those people. I work at an elementary school, and it used to be that when a kid came to school sniffling or coughing I'd feel bad and think they should have stayed home. Now I just feel murderous rage towards any parent who thinks it's okay to send their kid to school sick to any degree. I caught something from a class of sick kids that was not COVID but was also an infection that was more than just a cold, and that did it. I'm seeking therapy now because I know I need to get over this to some extent and I want to keep my job, which I really do love.

But also. I still think you need to at least make sure your kid really does just have the sniffles or allergies or something if you're going to let them go to school with illness symptoms. It's not hard to take their temperature in the morning at the very least, and if you're not sure, don't risk it.

A lot of parents send their kids to school when they're symptomatic because they cannot call out of their jobs without there being repercussions.

I can no longer afford to be understanding and sympathetic of the fact that someone else might lose their job because they can't find a babysitter they can call at last minutes notice, and would rather put an entire classroom in danger of getting what their kid has. Not to mention if I get sick enough times, I might lose my job too too. Sucks, but that's where we are now.

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 05:08 (UTC) - Expand

This is also the thing that I just do not get. Getting sick, including getting infections, is part of life. It can't be the case that you'd never gotten sick before that incident. What made it different? And how did you feel about the phenomenon of getting sick before it happened?

Getting sick from common illnesses is a part of life. Covid was largely a novel virus, and unlike other diseases which have existing treatments, medicines and vaccines, we didn't have any defenses against it when it first came to our shores (even though it's related to SARS, they still had to develop a specific vaccine for it). It's just goddamn stupid and reckless to take your chances with a disease you have little to no information about.

Also, I can't speak for ayrt but for me, what really pissed me off was the knowledge that there are inconsiderate and selfish people out there who prioritize things like *their* comfort and having a good time over the health and well-being of others. And then they ragged on us for being cautious because that meant now they couldn't have *fun*. Bunch of goddamn children, only worse, because you can't ground other adults.

Were there always people like this before the pandemic? Of course there were. It's just that when the pandemic hit, we found out those people were also our friends, coworkers and family members. And maybe some of them had enough sense to wash their hands after wiping their ass, but it didn't matter because they didn't take the disease as seriously, or just became flat-out Covid deniers. And much of this was due to, and made worse by, the fact that conservatives were politicizing the shit out of Covid, further stoking skepticism.

tl;dr no, it wasn't the same as "those other infections" you get in life.

Ehhh, you're not wrong exactly, but when the pandemic happened, a lot of people got a very harsh wake-up call that sometimes, "occasionally getting sick" could kill you, and/or your loved ones slowly and traumatically. Or leave with you mysterious, long term illnesses and brain damage. And that this whole thing was exacerbated by people who had a waaaaaaay too casual approach to germs and sickness, sometimes to the point of being complete nutjobs in denial about thousands of people dying.

So... you're not wrong, but I understand why people are twitchy.

Soooooo a bunch of people who didn't understand that, say, the common cold could kill my immunocompromised mother suddenly became crusaders because an illness personally impacted them in a negative way? And then those same people went around screeching about empathy? And now they're sad because no one buys their self-serving fucking bullshit?

Yes. Unironically yes. People care about things that impact them, because we tend not to have a reason to notice things that don't. We need to get over the idea that this is a morally reprehensible degree of selfishness. Thanks to the pandemic, I now understand that even me having the common cold could possibly kill someone if I give it to them. This was considered so rare beforehand that I barely had the opportunity to think about it. We cannot contain bottomless empathy, or we won't be able to function. We must prioritize ourselves before we can worry about anyone else.

I guess if you're really keen to find the most unflattering interpretation of that, sure.

at lot of the reason people are fine with certain circumstances is because there aren't other options. now people know there is another option, but society doesn't want it (and they don't want to be out of step with society to the point that it's negatively affecting their relationships) so there's lingering frustration.

What other option is there? Do you know of a magical machine that keeps all of us from ever getting sick?

I'm commenting to you again, because it's burning me up thinking about it. The only other option is that we don't interact with each other anymore. Yes, society doesn't want that...because that's the literal end of society. Us all spending our lives in little hermetically sealed bubbles is totally antithetical to the existence of society. And to many of the things that make us human, while we're at it.

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 04:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

meadowphoenix - 2024-10-12 05:33 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 13:23 (UTC) - Expand

I'm still masking, so I am not getting floored by the common cold every winter. And since I have a poor immune system and mild illnesses really knock me for a loop for a long time, I'm... just going to *keep* wearing a mask out. I assume if I had a normal immune system, I'd be more relaxed about it all.

Nope. if anything, the opposite - people doubling down on "it's just a cold suck it up you baby."

even if it is just a cold, fuck you. I've had one infection since the start of covid so it felt like the end of the world at the time, it suuuuuuuuuucked. the only people around me who have been some level of understanding are fellow nerds, somehow fandom people understand "do not spread your plague" better than average joes. my parents? "eh it's just a cold you're fine why not visit" because my antivax BIL is a piece of shit, that's why, see you after I get my fall vaccine boosters.

Background, I both worked in a healthcare setting in 2020 and have an autoimmune disorder that puts me at significantly higher risk than most.

I'm like your friend too in a lot of ways. Partially it is because of the insane level of selfishness that was displayed during the pandemic that I experienced first hand. Before 2020, I never fathomed people would be comfortable exposing others to an illness that dangerous, because I personally could not imagine knowing I had say the flu and still going to a restaurant or something. 2020 first and foremost showed me that no, there is a lot of people who do not give a single fuck about others and would rather get everyone they know sick instead of wearing a stupid mask. Where I worked it was illegal in the state to go into a doctor's office without a mask for a time, and the amount of patients I had to turn away or who screamed at me for telling them they needed to put a mask on was depressing. So now when I do catch something and I know the source I'm angry, because yes getting sick is a natural part of life but so MANY illnesses I've contracted could have been avoided with a little bit of common courtesy. So, yeah, it's now in a lot of cases "how dare you be so inconsiderate" because it is just carelessness.

The other part of it that others have mentioned is we in the states don't have to live like this. Other countries who are just as successful have better systems in place like proper healthcare and reasonable PTO/sick time so if you're sick it's easy to stay home and go see a doctor if you need to without having to worry about losing out on pay, having enough funds to cover any medical appointments/treatments, etc. Most people knew and acknowledged our system sucked before 2020 but that was a giant stress test for it and it failed massively.

Yeah it shattered trust in not just people in general, but also specific people that we thought were trustworthy. My own father lied about having been exposed to someone very sick from heavily symptomatic COVID in the days before visiting my frail 89-year-old grandmother because I was going to be there, and he hadn't seen me in a while. Mid-visit, he started sniffling then coughing and tried to play it off as "allergies" until I demanded he take a rapid test, which turned positive pretty much instantly. Then the truth came out and he admitted he'd been exposed. But, you know, his wants outweighed his own mother's health, life, and safety.

And what's even stupider is if he'd just told me, I would have happily set up time together with him, just outdoors in a low risk environment - it was a beautiful spring day, it wouldn't have been hard to take a long walk or play tennis. But lying was more convenient. Now I'll never trust him again! Hurray!

A friend of mine also lost his job because his aunt lied about being sick to see his new baby (because, you know, sick people around a baby without a developed immune system is no bueno). He'd noticed she was sniffling/coughing and said something (again, "allergies") and like an hour into the visit she admitted she didn't "feel well" (turned out to be full on COVID). Luckily, the kid didn't end up getting it, but my friend did, and had long covid for months afterwards, took too many sick days, and was fired from a job he desperately needed. The aunt still hasn't apologized; if she'd said something they wouldn't have let her see the new baby ://// (Like, even before COVID no one would have wanted you around a newborn if you were sick, why did COVID change this?)

The last one really blew me away: I can hear my neighbour through the walls in the stairwell to my apartment, including her mentioning that the lead singer to her band has COVID, but not to tell anyone, because then they won't go to her next gig, and she needs that money for a trip wants to take to Nepal. Oh boy, a super-spreader event (dude shedding as much virus as humanly possible into a crowd in tight quarters) so you can go to Nepal! Great! Don't postpone the gig or get a guest singer for this one, just get everyone sick!

The whole "half the people you know would sicken, maim, or even kill you and your loved ones if it would slightly inconvenience them to do otherwise" really destroyed a lot of people's faith in others and I don't think it's ever coming back.

AYRT

(Anonymous) - 2024-10-12 13:31 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AYRT

ariakas - 2024-10-12 13:52 (UTC) - Expand

1) The dominant mode of COVID-19 is airborne transmission. That is, the inhalation of virus particles shed from an infected person when they breathe, cough, sneeze, etc. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7929061/, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8049599/).

2) This was suspected/suggested very early on in the pandemic (months into 2020) and conclusively demonstrated by 2021, but was not disseminated by public health organizations for political reasons (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36763042/) because the airborne precautions (improved ventilation, HEPA filters, negative pressure, N95 respirators with fit-testing) would be too costly compared to droplet (surgical masks, distancing), or fomites (cleaning surfaces, washing hands). Droplet/fomites transmission also offloads the burden of prevention onto individuals and workers instead of employers and workplaces. In fact, droplet transmission is a minor mode of transmission; fomites transmission (contact with infected surfaces) is negligible (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35512326/).

3) Post-omicron COVID-19 is extremely infectious. It can cause long term disability and death. Distancing and cloth masks have limited utility; fit-tested N95 respirators are required for close contact with infected persons, and the best policy if you don't have access to N95s is to improve ventilation, get vaccinated against new strains regularly, and stay home when sick. (If you can't get fit-tested, you can do seal checks with the respirator; the standard size fits ~80% of adults, with outliers requiring small and large tending to be very small females and large males, respectively; some suppliers have sampler packs so that you can find a respirator that works for you (e.g., https://canadastrong.ca/collections/other-items-from-canada-strong).)

NB: I still go to movies, concerts, parties, etc., and my (high-risk) job but follow the above and haven't been sick since 2019.

Thank you for this, and for including sources.

Honestly? I've seen the opposite more.

People seem to have stopped doing basic things. So many more people come into work sick with illnesses that are more than just a cold - flu, whooping cough, etc. I'm surrounded by anti-vaxxers who have decided to stop having a winter flu jab or have chosen to stop their kid's vaccination programmes. Way more people leave public toilets without washing their hands.

The general "why" is usually "it's healthy for you to get sick".

I have seen this too! Also the "if it isnt covid then its fine" mentality. Like no, stay home it is still an illness I don't want!

[ SECRET POST #6489 ]

Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

DA

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

AYRT

Re: AYRT

Since thread OP is pushing COVID misinfo: Please read

Re: Since thread OP is pushing COVID misinfo: Please read

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?

Re: Ever feel like people have gotten weird about illness since the pandemic?