[ SECRET POST #6539 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6539 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 37 secrets from Secret Submission Post #935.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. https://i.imgur.com/58rpXbA.jpeg

[(Anonymous)]

This doesn't surprise me? If people are labeling themselves as "proshippers" first and foremost, as opposed to "people who ship X/Y" who happen to want to be left alone about it, then they're more about fighting antis than the fandom itself.

You're successfully finding what you're looking for, but you may be looking for the wrong thing.

[(Anonymous)]

+1, if you get involved with anti shit, even as an anti-anti, that nasty mindset perpetuates itself. Be there for the fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Can I ask out of curiosity, are these fandoms based on new media, or are they fandoms that have been around a while (idk maybe like 5+ years old)?

I've never really seen any anti v proship stuff in my current fandoms, BUT the fandoms I'm in are pretty old and have fallen out of popularity in recent years - so its probably full of people who don't care enough to argue about it or aren't into fandom hopping maybe? I do notice that people that I've followed from other fandoms, who tend to go rapidly from fandom to fandom; have also mentioned anti v proships.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's everywhere but really depends on who you are interacting with. I tend to steer away from people of both sides because they just cannot keep themselves away from talking about OTHERS instead of the show/game.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah that makes sense. I think I've just been really lucky with the fandom circles I've landed in to not be in direct fire about the matter.

[feotakahari]

Yeah, I quit following blogs like Just-Antithings because they didn’t seem conducive to enjoying fandom. Olderthannetfic seems okay, at least.

[(Anonymous)]

I had to unfollow olderthannetfic because most of their blog feels more like a mini anonymous forum and I got tired of the back-and-forth arguments or bad takes from anons that wouldn't be taken to DMs. It sucks though, I wish I could find more blogs from that age group.

[(Anonymous)]

I never bothered engaging with either side of this whole thing even when it was relatively new, because in my experience nothing good comes of this kind of tribalism where one side is 'good' and the other side is 'bad'. People are people and those with ill intentions are going to be on all sides because some people are just shit heads and want an excuse to blanket accuse an entire group of people of being 'wrong' in some way.

And I frankly just don't have time for that shit and never will. Make what you want, engage with what you want and avoid what you don't like, people talking about why they like/don't like something on their own personal space is not an attack on anyone else or their freedoms, and just generally take a fucking chill pill and calm down.

None of this is serious and shouldn't be taken to the levels where it gets serious.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[(Anonymous)]

Both sides are capable of leaving nasty burn marks, so it's no use engaging with them.

I privately dared to say that I am uncomfortable by father-son incest and shota then I got called a dumb person who goes around talking behind's people's back. All I did was trying to put down bondaries on what I am willing to discuss/interact with YKINMK, but immediately got labeled as anti-leaning and got blocked by half of the gang. Good riddance.

Three months later I am glad I did, because they were harming both my mental health and my enjoyment of fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Urgh, that's my issue with a lot of proshippers. (Insert "Not All X" disclaimer)

In a server I was in, there was a vocal proshipper (cool) who out of nowhere would post incest and even noncon in the horny channels (not cool), and got really defensive about it. I'm not against these subjects, I have a project on my hands that touches on them a bit. But I still don't like seething incest and noncon kinked on in a space that is otherwise pretty tame, just because it's fictional and there's merit to exploring these subjects doesn't make it not a very common sexual trauma that people go through and not want to see. Same for underage. I think the subject can be handled tastefully and compelling, but just like my discomfort with incest/noncon out of nowhere, I am a victim of that kind of thing and if I want to explore it, it'll be on my own terms and not shoved in my face. That doesn't make me an anti. I thought proship meant pro-ship and let ship, not you have to LIKE all these things.

[(Anonymous)]

This is why I just can't with self-identified proshippers. They always get so defensive when I point out they can be just as toxic behaviorally as antis. Yes, antis are 2x worse, but you can still have the right opinions on fiction and still be toxic and insufferable to people. I always just prefer to say that I'm more anti-antis than proship. I know the mantra is "if you don't believe in harassment you are proship by default", but it's frankly a loaded label and a very recent term I just don't identify with.

[(Anonymous)]

That's really sad and interesting because the word "proship" was invented because "anti-anti" was the loaded label that had come to be associated with the kind of people the secret is about, and other fans wanted a word to distance themselves from that and just signify that they were ship and let ship. In fact, maybe SALS should be brought back now.

[dani_phantasma]

I only label myself pro-fiction/pro-fic on Bluesky but i dont really focus on discoursy shit

I mainly try to focus toward posting and reposting good vibes stuff and fun calming stuff nowadays.

[(Anonymous)]

This is why I've always said proship =/= anti-harassment, and anti =/= pro-harassment. I've met proshippers who have self-admitted to cyberstalking and sending anonymous waves of hate to antis who weren't doing anything heinous, and antis who follow "block and move on" like a religion.

"But if they're not anti-harassment, they're not a proshipper! If they don't agree with harassing others, they're not an anti!" 'No true Scotsman', anyone?

All of this is why 'ship discourse' is bullshit. No matter which side you're on, people harass each other for not agreeing with them, all while they have it in their head that they have the moral highground. Proshippers and antis are both insufferable in their own special ways.

[(Anonymous)]

>and antis who follow "block and move on" like a religion.

I've grown to respect this minority in fandom a lot. I guess I can arguably be considered this. I do think certain content is wrong or a red flag, but I don't think it should be banned or see any point in telling people to stop.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, here comes the both-sides-er.

Being anti-harassment is supposed to be part of the requirement for being a proshipper, but some proshippers do harass people. This is true.

Anti is by definition pro-harassment. Antis themselves put that in the definition. If you hate everything antis hate in fiction but don't harass people who like it, you're not an anti. Antis consider harassing people who like "bad" things a moral obligation, and even if you only like the purest of pure anti-approved fiction, they will turn on you and harass you too when they find out you're not going to join their bullying crusade.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry, but if they block and move on... they're not antis. By definition.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh please. Pro shippers are just as capable and intolerant people who disagree with their view of fanfiction and fanactivity as supposed antis are. That you guys came up with the division in the first place is proof of that. Go polish your halo, its slipping.

[(Anonymous)]

I literally don't believe you.

Go read a fucking fanfiction already, jesus.

[(Anonymous)]

"If something happened that challenged my worldview, no it didn't."

[(Anonymous)]

Hm... as someone who is in fandoms with antis and fandoms without antis, it's a lot easier to be chill about other fans' behavior in the fandoms without antis. Once you know there are active antis operating in your fandoms, it IS really hard to do anything fannish in that fandom without also keeping fairly detailed tabs on who the antis are or might possibly be. The reason why is that antis make the stakes really high. You have no idea what they are going to accuse you of and to who and how they are going to use personal information you might mention offhand against you.

For this reason, I just CANNOT be in Discord servers where there are antis who might see/screencap my messages and share it out of context without me knowing, or who might use references to places I've lived to figure out my wallet name and dox me. Also, antis are much more crypto about their opinions nowadays, so it often takes me months sharing servers with antis before they drop offhand that they think "noncon fic endorses rape" or that "people who write an underage ship must necessarily be attracted to children or then why else would they write that?" Because of that, I need to be VERY meticulous about monitoring what people say in my fandom spaces, and I need to infer from social connections who is also likely to be an anti based on how they interact with the public anti-adjacent content of people I know to be antis. This "keeping tabs" and "doing background checks" sounds insane from an outsider's perspective and just as cliqueish and gossip-y about other fans as antis are, but this is a necessary act of self-preservation not because this is fandom but because it is specifically a fandom *with a contingent of active antis* who think their opinions about the damage of fiction are objectively correct and will harass and make extreme accusations about fans who write fiction they don't like as a direct result of that conviction.

Also, there are some important differences between the anti harassment behavior and the paranoid proshipper behavior. Namely, I do not harass or dox antis for any reason, and the reason why antis are not welcome in my spaces is because of the way they treat real people, not based on the art they consume or produce.

Anyway, my main point here is that I think a lot of the suspicion and paranoia that proshippers have in fandoms that have a significant set of antis -- while obviously undesirable -- is just rational and unavoidable because of the dangers of letting even ONE anti into a semi-private space like a Discord server, and the dangers of not warning unknowing bystanders off antis (who often don't appear to antis on the surface because, as I mentioned, antis are more crypto nowadays) and possibly implying by reblogging their content that I as a proshipper think they are also a proshipper when this is not in fact the case. A lot of behavior like keeping tabs on people and doing background checks and avoiding anyone who doesn't put "proship" on their bio is in fact needed to protect yourself in fucked-up fandoms.

[(Anonymous)]

Personally, I think it takes two to tango in our recent fandom atmosphere because both sides make it unbearable for each other they are just far too blind to notice that.

For example when I was a baby (16-18) I could participate in secret santa events because they were all for general audiences, but recently most of them are 18+ because people insist allowing nsfw into the event.

My personal experience was that even after I cut connection with a proshipper friend of mine and blocked them on all fronts because there came a moment when I couldn't really bear their gaslighting, dismissive and passive agressive behaviour anymore. They apparently did the same, yet somehow always tailed me in the fandom even attempting to push me out of my own spaces and talk behind my back that lead me to be under heavy monitoring and landed me with several blocks from mutuals. Nobody even asked why I blocked that person, they just assumed it was my ascension to "antidom" not a response to several months worth of abuse because the reality doesn't suit the narrative they want to apply there.

For me the whole state of fandoms feels like when people living in the GDR would report their neighbours for suspicious activities and calling the agencies if someone's hat just tipped a bit forward. Except both sides are actively reporting on each other.

[(Anonymous)]

Damn.

This is disappointing to hear. But not surprising.

It's really easy for a lot of fandom spaces to turn bitter and make everything/majority of content about "us versus them". It's even harder to break out of this mentality if there is a schism in which each side feels like their indignation is just.

I'm not surprised to hear that proshippers can be just as clique-y and toxic with who is "good" and who is "bad".

I've had to accept that every time certain friends bring up their qualms over racism-related issues/discourse I have to tread carefully.
Because often, it is an issue, but I feel like my friends think that if we - the fans - shout angrily about it enough we'll cure racism or something (?)...and it usually just becomes fans drawing lines in the sand and yelling at each other that those they don't agree with are the worst people to exist.

I want to have nuanced discussions about problems in art, fandom, etc. But the point is to hear other points of views and ask yourself what you personally can do to make your own experiences better/less self-contained - or hell, it's OK to be aware of what others like/don't like and so you can be aware if such points-of-view is worthy of your time/interaction in the future.
But often I feel like a lot of fandom places treat schism or different perspectives as a way to gatekeep in some way.
They don't see that their behavior is really much more along the lines of creating enemies and furthering divides, and not so much about building communities that fans can feel safe in.
And yes, that means blocking fans who you know will not change their minds or are just trolls/puritans on crusades to cause chaos and divide.
But it's also being aware on if I myself am dismissing others because I believe I can do no wrong and I feel threatened in a way in which does not align with the situation at hand - as well as seeing if the company I keep are doing immature/mean and gatekeep-y things.

I know it's hard to deal with fandoms in which not everyone you agree with is your friend and not everyone you disagree with is your enemy, especially when it seems like a lot fandomers don't believe this to be true.
Just yikes all around and further reason as to why fandoming is really hard for me these days.