[ SECRET POST #6597 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6597 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 29 secrets from Secret Submission Post #943.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I have never done that. I remember arguing with my redneck uncle when I was 12 (even while going to Catholic school, which condemned queer people) that same-sex marriage should be legalized and considered myself an ally (although I didn't know that word back then; I would've just said I was a supporter of gay rights) well before realizing I was queer myself, so no...at 16-17 I was waaaaay past realizing that gay was not an insult.

[(Anonymous)]

Good for you and you were ahead of most teenagers then. But acting like most teenagers weren't casually using something they didn't understand as an insult, even if they weren't actually homophobic, and pretending like none of those teens could possibly have learned better is...

Good luck if that's your litmus test for acceptable people, because if all your friends claim the same - they were NEVER cringe or EVER said anything bigoted as a dumb teen - they're lying to you.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Well... that or you are very, very lonely.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Not at all. I just choose to only have relationships with decent people. If you believe they're lying, that's not my problem.

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm you went a bit too far to be believable yourself there. Implying that someone is not a "decent person" because they called something gay once as a teenager, which they admittedly don't do any more and might have been decades ago, isn't something a reasonable person would do.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Whatever. Whether you believe me or not is your problem.

[(Anonymous)]

sa

Also, I want to point out the distinction that the other commenter made. I'm not going to not be friends with someone because they used gay as an insult when they were 11 because they overheard another kid at school doing it, and later realized it wasn't right. If they're still doing it at 17, then yeah, I'm going to judge them and think that they're probably not a decent person.

[(Anonymous)]

That makes sense if they are currently 17 and still doing it right now.

If they are 27, learned better, and aren't doing it any more, and fail your purity test for being a "decent person" because of something that happened 10 years ago when they were 17, that's unreasonable and people are right to call it unreasonable. Like no, most people are not gonna drop a friend because some person from their old high school tells them they called someone a fag once, especially if the friend already openly admitted and apologized for it and changed their ways.

The original secret seems to point out that purity tests that go that far back leave zero room for anyone to change, and this thread is just proving that right.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Again, I say that 17 is old enough to know better. If you're okay with being friends with someone who thought it was acceptable to use slurs when they were only one year shy of being an adult, then that's your right.

Just as it's my right to have different standards. You can call it unreasonable if you want, but I personally think it's completely ridiculous to think that expecting people to not be homophobes or racists is apparently some impossibly high standard.

[(Anonymous)]

That's the thing. To most people, the 27 year old who is no longer homophobic... isn't a homophobe because they're not homophobic. They did something 10 years ago that was homophobic but are no longer like that. People who were once homophobic can change and become non bigots. This is wonderful and should be encouraged.

"One strike and you're impure" though means that you say a word once and you can never get better or be a decent person, and people changing for the better doesn't get acknowledged as a good thing. If you want to never acknowledge that, go on with your pure self I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I do not call myself or anyone else "pure" or "impure". Those are completely meaningless words.

Honestly, I don't know anyone who was shitty at 17 and a great person at 27. I used to give people the benefit of the doubt, but after giving people multiple chances to be better and being shown over and over and over and over again that they aren't any better...I don't really believe people honestly do change. Or if they do, it's rare enough that I've never seen it.

At this point I'm a strong believer in "when someone shows you who they are, believe them" because life is too short to put up with assholes. Maybe my view is unreasonable to you, but...I'm good with it.

[(Anonymous)]

If "I believe people cannot ever change" is the basis we're starting from, yeah this conversation has no purpose. Should've said that at the start and saved the effort, lol. It's good that you're good with it, because if you're not then change isn't possible, I guess? Idk, man. Hope it works out for you.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

It's worked out for me so far! Luckily there are enough good people out there that there's no need to put up with the bad ones. :)

[(Anonymous)]

My, what a saint you are.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Ngl, I'm kinda leaning with agreeing with OP that anyone who is all "well I never did x and I was never a cringe teen" and regards themselves as the pure unicorn is just ignorant of all the factors and lack of education and experience that can apply to so many young people, especially teens, and is based in their own lack of experience.

Lots of people never have the opportunity to learn better or have bigotry be a real thing that impacts people until they head to college and meet a much wider variety of people than there exists in their home town or neighborhood. There's a reason conservatives hate college and cities and blame them for turning their children "woke."

Being like "well I knew better so everyone else could have too (no, not really, that's not how anything works)" just... dismisses all that for so many people.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Lots of people never have the opportunity to learn better or have bigotry be a real thing that impacts people until they head to college and meet a much wider variety of people than there exists in their home town or neighborhood

I guess. I grew up in the bible belt surrounded by a family of rednecks but we still had Black neighbors and I had Black classmates and knew that racism was wrong. And even something as simple as sitcoms with gay characters is enough for a kid to be exposed to different things and realize that gay people exist. Not to mention the fact that I was reading constantly...it didn't take until college to realize there were people out there different than me.

I mean, maybe if someone grows up in a town that is 100% white and has zero access to books or TV, then maybe it's understandable that they'd end up thinking these things are okay, but that seems like an incredibly uncommon situation.

[(Anonymous)]

We're not talking about things like calling black people monkeys or doing heil hitlers here though.

I'm willing to bet money that 95% of this community has, as kids or teenagers, likely before knowing any better:

- called something "gay" as an insult
- called something "retarded" or "special" as an insult
- called something "autistic" as an insult or used the word sperg as a verb
- called something or someone a "spaz" or "spastic"
- called someone a "pussy" or "bitch" to indicate cowardice or otherwise called something "girly" as an insult
- asked insultingly if someone who is obviously neither blind nor deaf, is blind or deaf

Tons of people, especially kids, can be bigots without realizing they are bigots.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

The key word there is KIDS. I was talking about teenagers/early 20s, because that's the age range mentioned in the secret.

I have zero issue believing that kids (like middle schoolers or younger) use words that they overhear from adults or teenagers that they don't know are wrong, and I don't blame them for that.

My point was that TEENAGERS are old enough to know right from wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

Take the words "kids" out of there and replace it with "anywhere between 13-18" and I would still bet the money.

I don't think anyone here is talking about people over 20, and none of those were mentioned in the secret.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

But up to 20 no one is expected to know right from wrong? Really?

[(Anonymous)]

You can know something is wrong but not be fully cognizant of why and how it is wrong, or just how wrong and hurtful it can be. That's the majority of teenagers.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

That's the majority of teenagers.

Not the ones I was friends with. Not to say I didn't know teenagers who said those things, but I didn't hang out with them because even back then I knew that behavior wasn't acceptable.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

No, I just try to be a halfway decent person? Not being racist or homophobic is not some super high standard to have of people and the fact that so many people in these comments are acting like it is is kind of mindboggling to me.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt but we all have different experiences and journeys we must take.

When I look back on my life, I realize just how racist the household I grew up in was. Oh, sure, there were certain thresholds we never passed - for example, don't use slurs to people's faces. But that didn't stop the adults from passing nasty ass racist jokes on to the children, or implying ugly things about a person due to their race. Honestly, I look back and wonder, why in the hell did they think that was remotely okay to say that about anyone, much less in front of child?

The only thing that may have saved me, oddly enough, was parental neglect. I was often alone and the TV was my babysitter. I found a variety of television shows, centered around people of all races. MTV gets a bad rap (though somewhat deserved) for not playing music anymore, but they also introduced me to LGBTQ folks and some of their struggles (though obviously, it was still a limited view for the audience). I got into comedians like George Carlin, who took a skeptical view on issues that society didn't seem to find problematic, or even notice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying woke TV made me woke... I'm just saying, it planted a lot of seeds. I eventually ended up more woke with time, because I concluded it was better to be that way. But during that time, I misstepped a LOT, and maybe I still do sometimes. If someone had slapped a purity test on me, no question I would have failed it. And I'm not 100% sure I wouldn't have just gone the other way just to spite the purity asshole. I certainly hope I would be better about it now.

But yeah, we all have our own journeys.

[(Anonymous)]

sa

*in front of a child (all the spellchecking in the world still can't save me from entire word omissions, jfc)