fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6598 ]

[ SECRET POST #6598 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6598 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I grew up in a racist environment with a racist father and I realized I was experiencing white privilege as young as the single digits. It's a matter of upbringing and if someone chooses to agree with the messages they're taught, not some pseudoscientific claim of when someone is mentally mature. Plenty of people under "25" aren't racist and too many people past that are.

Very much depends on the kind of racism displayed, though. Is it easy to tell your dad is racist if he's tossing slurs around everywhere? Yeah. It's much harder if your parents are subtly racist in the "they're not like us" and "always trust 'your people' over others" and "meritocracy is real and people who claim racism are making excuses" sense and claiming they aren't racist while being very polite and never uttering a slur.

It's been interesting to me to see the people who say they learned better being way more open and understanding of other people's upbringings than the ones who claim to never have even accidentally done a wrong.

never have even accidentally done a wrong

I specifically said people who knew things were wrong and did them anyway, and then you started defending them because apparently up to 25 you get a free pass for having no conscience.

I don't see anything like that in the comment I replied to?

"It's much harder if your parents are subtly racist in the "they're not like us" and "always trust 'your people' over others" and "meritocracy is real and people who claim racism are making excuses" sense and claiming they aren't racist while being very polite and never uttering a slur."

Those things are incredibly racist and it's not even a question. Society is way past the point where we've realized you can be racist without using slurs. A so-called "polite" racist is still a racist even if they claim they're not.

...did anybody say those things weren't racist, besides these example racist parents that were called racist?

Okay, so I don't think we're having the conversation you think we're having. The point was not "this isn't racism," the point was that "to a 15 year old with parents like this it's not as obvious that their parents are racist, and harder to tell that their parents are racists when they coat it with a veneer of politeness. Especially since most kids don't want to think their parents are racist."

Are those things racism? Yes, obviously.

Is it more insidious and harder for a teenager to pinpoint as racism, especially if their parents aren't teaching them that it's racism? Also yes.

Biases are taught and not all of them are obvious, especially to young people.

Okay, I guess I misunderstood, sorry. Yes, that makes sense.

Biases are taught and not all of them are obvious, especially to young people.

That's exactly the point that I and a few other people are trying to make in this thread. Some of us weren't taught them, which is apparently super hard for some of these commenters to comprehend. It's like they think "oh, I said bigoted things when I was young, therefore everyone else must have too, and if someone says they didn't, I don't believe them". They refuse to believe that other people had different experiences than them, so it's kind of funny to me that they're the supposedly more open-minded ones.

I don't know if you were the person I was responding to or not, but you don't see the issue with someone being like "my dad was racist and I could tell immediately, so other teens must have also realized and simply agreed with what they were taught" while not taking into account that racism can be very insidious and hard to tell is racism if you aren't taught otherwise?

All I was saying is it is often not as simple as that. If every racist or type of racism were completely overt, it'd be much harder for well-meaning teens to get indoctrinated. Whereas lots of people look back and go oh my god, that was racist all along.

No, I'm not them, luckily my dad isn't racist. But unless someone is homeschooled by said racist dad/parents and never allowed to leave the house or read a book or watch TV, they are going to encounter other people who do not have the same beliefs as their racist parents and realize that maybe their parents aren't always right.

AYRT

I agree with you. It's a matter of how you were raised, and at a certain point, of having a mind of your own and being able to think for yourself and not just assume everything you were taught is true.

DA

And that point is not at 15. It's normally not even until your 20s, i.e. the time during which you leave the environment you grew up in. If you never leave, then it's much much harder to change these things in yourself.

AYRT

And I disagree with you. I'm not sure where the line is, but it's absolutely way before someone is in their 20s. If you want to say 18, which is when most people leave for college and are exposed to new things that they haven't been before, I'll go with that. I personally feel like it's younger, but I'd be willing to agree with 18. But 20s, no way.

SA

Also, 18 is considered a legal adult. Old enough to vote, join the military, get married without parental permission, etc. Yet you're telling me people legally able to vote are not old enough to think for themselves? So does that mean we should raise the voting age?

AYRT

Also, 18 is considered a legal adult. Old enough to vote, join the military, get married without parental permission, etc. Yet you're telling me people legally able to vote are not old enough to think for themselves? So does that mean we should raise the voting age?

People who are 18 are not mentally equipped to handle the military (and honestly, I think marriage as well). They can think for themselves, but they're just beginning to, so they're going to make a lot of mistakes. We all grow up with biases and -phobias baked in. It's absolutely telling when people say they've never had any biases in their life because they of necessity have so all they're saying is that they've never actually confronted them. When you're 18, you haven't had the time to do most of the work needed to start overcoming those biases that you were raised in.

So I very strongly disagree with anyone who says that you should have your biases gone by the time you're 15. That's some all-talk-no-action "allyship" that's less than worthless because it's obvious you haven't actually put in the work on yourself and you would rather say that you're a "good person" without actually having done anything.

And of course you completely ignore the question about voting. The running of the country surely shouldn't be decided by people incapable of thought, right? What should we raise the voting age to, in your opinion?

And you disagree all you want, it doesn't make you right. I know plenty of people who had figured out by 15 that racism is wrong. Hell, I know 10 YEAR OLDS that realize racism is wrong and would never think to call someone a mean name because they were raised by empathetic parents who taught them that calling people names is wrong. Just because you apparently only know a bunch of juvenile delinquents who weren't raised right doesn't mean decent kids don't exist.

"And of course you completely ignore the question about voting. The running of the country surely shouldn't be decided by people incapable of thought, right?"

I left the voting issue alone because it's very complicated, which you don't seem to want to engage with. In any event it's not relevant to this discussion because there IS NO AGE AT WHICH YOU ARE COMPLETELY MORALLY CORRECT.

I know plenty of people who had figured out by 15 that racism is wrong.

And I know plenty of people at 15 who "know racism is wrong" but disagree about what "racism" is. Because you aren't going to know or understand all the perspectives in the world at 15. You're not going to know them in your entire life. You will continue to encounter ways you are biased that you didn't even know about and you will look back on your beliefs and actions and wonder at how you never knew. At least.... that's what you do if you don't assume you're already perfect.

I feel so sorry for the people around you.

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[ SECRET POST #6598 ]

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