[ SECRET POST #100 ]

[shahni.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #100 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

- HAPPY 100TH POST FANDOMSECRET-ERS~ :D

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 089 secrets from Secret Submission Post #015.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, April 16th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: Here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[grayout.livejournal.com]

Uh, hey 16, but that's what uke MEANS in yaoi. You don't see slashers going around saying "lol you're such a bottom" to people who are weepy/campy/clingy/etc (because bottoming has nothing to do with that), but you DO see yaoi-fans saying "you're such an UKE" because that's what an UKE is as opposed to just a bottom. Have you actually read yaoi? How many non-weepy non-clingy ukes do you even know?

Yes, there are those that "break the mold" but they're few and far between and CREATED TO break the mold (and the fact that they were means the MOLD IS THERE which means yes, again, that IS what uke has come to mean). I don't care about power play, I don't care about semexuke realism (whatever, to each their own tastes) but saying that you hate that "uke" means ... "uke" (especially in the seme-uke stereotypical relationship which you claim all yaoi fans like) is really weird.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, and if you "want evidence," I have gigs and gigs of manga I could send you. :D

[klytaemnestra.livejournal.com]

UKE!

::flees.::

[grayout.livejournal.com]

D: I don't exist in yaoi. I HAVE NO PLACE.

[klytaemnestra.livejournal.com]

Uke, uke, uke, uke!

Shahni has decided I'm uke too ... which, okay I really can't entirely deny that. ::dies.::

[grayout.livejournal.com]

But but... how is

"Hey let's have sex"
"... no."

uke? D:

[shahrizai.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't group Ryo from FAKE, Ritsuka from Loveless, Kai from Kizuna, Riki from Ai no Kusabi and Izumi from Zetsuai in the same category as Shuichi from Gravi.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

That's because Shuichi is a GIRL, which goes beyond uke.

Ryo from FAKE is a pretty stereotypical uke (FAKE was actually the first series I ever read, and the ukes never seemed to change from there). Loveless, Kizuna, and Zetsuai, I don't know, but Riki not a stereotypical uke are you KIDDING ME? Sure, maybe not for the first half, but gahekjgaeht HE GETS SO WEEPY AND ANGSTY (and omg clingy guilty woeeees to Iason) LATER that I started hating his character for doing a 180.

[if-i-had-you.livejournal.com]

Shuichi from Gravitation is...not a girl. o_x

[grayout.livejournal.com]

Didn't mean physically, scroll down. :D

[shahrizai.livejournal.com]

I'm come to consider Sora in this kinda pic (worksafe) (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/8556850/?qo=85&q=kingdom+hearts+yaoi&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5) as an uke, not Ryo in this (NWS) (http://pics.livejournal.com/shahrizai/pic/000eax7w/). Bottom, yes, weepy and clingy? Not so much. Really, Ryo chose not to do it until he was entirely sure he wanted to be with Dee as more than just a one-right stand, he can show a little emotion without being an uke. I don't know, I think the difference is that he won't always be that way every time they do it, it was just their first time and so stuff like tears happen. Hey, if it was the first time you were getting done up the ass...

[grayout.livejournal.com]

Okay, I mean, I'm basically agreeing with you even if specifics differ! *dies* Exceptions exist. But the fact is that they're exceptions.

[fuuga-chou.livejournal.com]

Are YOU fucking kidding me? Riki?! Did you even watch the anime/read the novel? Or was that all just my imagination? The man has his ex-lover go berserker rage on him, he loses the only identity he just BARELY managed to scrape up off the ground, AND he got he fucking PENIS CHOPPED OFF. Oh yeah, he should be all sunshine and rainbows after that. :D I'm sure!

Is it just me or do you have like.. no sympathy for anything, and that anyone that 'suddenly gets upset for valid reason' is WEEPY ANGSTY EMO?

[grayout.livejournal.com]

What? He was angsty before that, all woe I'm a victim woeeeeeee (and yet somehow clingy to Iason in spite of all that wtf???) And it's not just like "he got his penis chopped off," he agreed to it or he could've beaten Guy down.

Maybe I don't! Or maybe I think they get more upset than they have valid reason TO be.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

And you know I read it, you sent it to me! D:

[shahrizai.livejournal.com]

I guess I should qualify this with yes, most ukes fit the stereotype, but some characters can get through, and if you look hard enough for the right series you can dodge it.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

You CAN, but that wasn't the point I was making. The secret-poster was complaining that "uke" has come to mean what it DOES MEAN. Like I said, there ARE those that break the mold but they're breaking the MOLD that's THERE -- which is the definition that the secret poster is talking about.

So pretty much uke DOES mean "whiny, clingy, misogynistic, feminine stereotype" and always did. It's like saying "man, I hate how bacon has come to mean 'bacon'. God!" Just... huh!?

[grayout.livejournal.com]

ETA: Shuichi = like, a hyperactive 5 year old girl, no offense to any girls out there.

[klytaemnestra.livejournal.com]

OMG! I hate Shuichi! I like Gravi ... I've even cosplayed Tohma, but god Shuichi just annoys the piss out of me.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

Shuichi annoys the piss out of everyone. *diesss*

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

What disturbs me is when people start bringing the terms uke and seme into slash... ie, not canon stuff... that's just... WRONG. Especially when it's not even manga/anime.

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

oh, or when they start asking 'which one is the uke' when it's not yaoi, or worse, is real life.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

AUGH YES

I've had people go "so... are you uke or seme?" to me and I'm like WHAT

[autophobia.livejournal.com]

Y'know what? I totally disagree.

In my opinion, seme/uke and top/bottom are the equivalent of one another. I believe this because, to my knowledge, seme means "to attack" - AKA to STICK IT IN HIM - and uke means "to receive".

I understand that yaoi manga/anime does portray the seme and uke as certain stereotypes. However, I do not believe that the terms seme and uke are the stereotypes in and of themselves, as there are semes and ukes that break from that form.

For instance, in the yaoi manga/OVA Haru wo Daiteita, the seme, Katou Yoji, is the younger and more effeminate of the two. In fact, some would say he's probably the whiniest of them--mostly because Iwaki won't reciprocate his twu wuv at first. This just goes to show that not all semes are hardass mother****ers.

So, yes, in conclusion? I think it's fair to say that I can hate the cliched seme and uke stereotypes, without hating semes and ukes. Why? Because, hey, semes and ukes can have personalities of their own.

[grayout.livejournal.com]

I hate the stereotypes too, don't get me wrong.

But what I was arguing is that the stereotypes are there for a reason: like I said, there are ukes and semes that break the mold but the "mold" is definitely there. So when people say "uke" and "seme" when they're casually talking about stuff, the stereotypes are what they mean. Hate how people do it, sure, no one's stopping you, but I'm just saying it's weird to do that when like, in 90% of yaoi, it holds true.