fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1148 ]

[ SECRET POST #1148 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1148 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Zachary Quinto]

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[Stargate SG-1]

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[AKA: Lies are like wishes]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #164.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - ships it ], [ 1 - would hit it ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I don't know about anyone else but I hate being told that I'm 'being a minority' wrong. I had no idea before that I was supposed to get upset and offended everytime someone referred to me by a word some people consider a slur. I'm pretty easygoing and am not bothered by a lot of things privileged people ~take offense to for my sake. It really wears me down to hear them and other members of marginalized group explaining to me that I'm just a self-hating idiot, though.

Oh, yay! "I'm a member of group X, and what you said doesn't offend me, so it must not be offensive!" I love this shit.

lol this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Come back to me when you can read things without looking for ways to pull out your bingo card bullshit.

- a 'self-hating' oriental

It bugs me down when people decide that, just because something doesn't bother them personally, the other person must be overreacting. It's disrespectful and it sets you up as the Speaker for POC (whether or not that's what you're trying to do, that's how white people will read it). Where, exactly, did you get self-hating out of that?

- a Latina who's worked really hard not to be self-hating

I'm setting myself up as the Speaker for POC? If it's white people that are assuming that, don't turn it on what I do or don't find offensive. Turn it on them. I have no obligation to be offended by everything everyone of my particular minority finds offensive, and I have no obligation to stay silent and keep my opinions or feelings to myself when the subject comes up.

I have no obligation to be offended by everything everyone of my particular minority finds offensive, and I have no obligation to stay silent and keep my opinions or feelings to myself when the subject comes up.

I never said you did. But portraying everyone who disagrees with you as being whiny, or as being upset over nothing is disrespectful. We're not a hive mind, it's quite possible that other POC have had experiences that you haven't, which have made them more sensitive to certain words or phrases. Or stereotypes, for that matter. For example, I'm Puerto Rican and lived in areas that are predominately Puerto Rican, so the 'all Latinos are illegal immigrants' doesn't bother me as much as it does a Mexican-American friend of mine, because I haven't had to deal with it as much as he has.

Where did I say anyone was whiny or upset over nothing? I said I'm sick and tired of white people telling me I should be offended when I'm not.

This I had no idea before that I was supposed to get upset and offended everytime someone referred to me by a word some people consider a slur, implies that people are getting offended over something silly and unimportant.

... how?

Probably because you followed it up with a comment about how 'easy going' you are. If you're not offended because you're such an easy-going person, what does that say about the people who are?

That they are not as easy-going. That's fine. Everyone has different standards of what upsets them. Nothing wrong with not being easy-going. My main problem is with white people getting upset and making it all about their special knowledge of POC issues, not other asians being bothered by the words.

Fair enough. My own issues here are coming out (for whatever reason, people assume that I'm really insanely angry when I'm not), so this probably wasn't a good time for me to comment anyway.

My main problem is with white people getting upset and making it all about their special knowledge of POC issues

That's why I try to focus on stuff written by other POC.

No it doesn't. It implies she's sick of stupid white people jumping in to ~*~*~saaave~*~*~ her from hearing ~*~*~*those words~*~*~*, assuming she absolutely must care.

If some able-bodied person heard a friend call me "crip" and started ranting about how it's the wrong word, I'd tell him to piss right off, because that's a privileged person dictating how someone else should talk about me.

Other people with disabilities can get into the politics of reclaiming words with me and discuss with me whether reclaiming is wise. But able-bodied people who want to take that discussion over can fuck right off and leave that discussion to people who've actually been called "cripple" pejoratively, thanks.

That's called 'splaining, and it's something a lot of people who take part in these discussions try hard not to do to.

Saying that these discussions shouldn't take place because a few annoying things tend to happen in them, instead of saying those annoying things should stupid, is stupid.

It implies she's sick of stupid white people jumping in to ~*~*~saaave~*~*~ her from hearing ~*~*~*those words~*~*~*, assuming she absolutely must care.

Except that she wasn't just talking about white people, since she mentioned 'other members of marginalized groups.' The implication that if she personally doesn't find something offensive, it must be unimportant irritated me. Especially since it ended with the whole 'I must be a baaad minority' (I suppose that could've been sincere, but I think that she was really trying to say that she was one of the rare 'good' minorities, who didn't take things too seriously) and a random comment about being 'easy going' (anyone who does get offended must be ANGRY ALL THE TIME). Like I said in the comment thread, I've heard a lot of this sort of shaming before and I'm sick of it. I can be a nice, sweet, good-natured person and still find something personally offensive.

Can I also point out that what she said was entirely irrelevant in this discussion? We don't know the race of most of the commenters (though I would bet that the vast majority are white) and the odds of the OP being a POC are basically zero. So there was no white people telling POC what they can, or cannot, say.

Okay, anon, I must be misunderstanding you totally, because I'm not sure how "what she said was entirely irrelevant" if you were responding to her. I must be misreading -- what's that mean now?

And honestly, I don't understand why you feel as defensive as you do here. There are some groups in which everyone is assumed to be automatically offended by something, and if they're not, they're called choice names. (In the disability community, people sometimes call other people "curebies" if they express the attitude that their disability is upsetting, impedes them, is a problem, etc. and don't automatically accept all aspects of the social model.) (FWIW, I'm very big on the social model, but I see no reason why denying people's experiences that don't neatly fit it makes any sense.)

And... sounds like you wouldn't agree with this, but while I disagree with some things I hear people deemed "curebies" saying, I don't feel attacked by their existing, or like they're claiming to be "good people with disabilities" where I am a "bad" one. If they say I'm oversensitive or the like, sure, I'll get mad. But when someone says "hey, my experience of my disability is different from these people's; I find it painful and annoying and not something I identify with, and I feel weird when people act as though I'm automatically supposed to agree" I don't feel attacked. There are all different kinds of experience of disability.

Not being a POC, I don't know exactly how race is the same or different. But I don't hear anyone telling you how you should feel about anything. I hear someone saying "I feel this way, and I keep hearing that I'm not in solidarity with My People. And funnily enough, very often those telling me I need to be more in tune with My People are... white folks. WTF. Ew."

I think it's very easy sometimes to get a twinge when someone says "I don't feel the same as you," a twinge that feels like hearing "Change your mind." But that's... not what I heard, at least.

Re: My problem with minority activists

(Anonymous) - 2010-02-28 17:42 (UTC) - Expand

Re: My problem with minority activists

fierceawakening.livejournal.com - 2010-02-28 20:28 (UTC) - Expand

You know what's really fun? Having to disclose all your abuse survivor credentials all the time, or being accused of being an abuse apologist. Having neutral statements like "children with neurological differences are more likely to be abused" labeled as "blaming the victim"when discussing your own experience. Having to get your hall pass stamped for abuse, disability, and ethnicity before your comments on those subjects are taken seriously. In short, being abused and triggered by people who apparently have way more "spoons" than you'll ever get. That's what fun.

I bet lots of people don't even believe you when you explain it, do they?

I've given up on it, I just walk the hell away. One of my first online friends ended up suiciding because her (documented, abuser jailed) childhood abuse didn't lead her to be the person others in an online support group thought that a real abuse survivor should be. It's not worth using the facts because they blow up in your face if you aren't able to control the way you've been harmed by them.

It's not worth using the facts because they blow up in your face if you aren't able to control the way you've been harmed by them.

I just wanted to stop and say thank you, because I really needed to be reminded of this right now. I am going to go be somewhere other than in front of the computer for a bit.

Seriously, thank you.

Oh, this. I was once told (by someone who since apologized, but) that I must not have PTSD because I dared say that I think sometimes the word/concept of "trigger" gets co-opted from our actual experience to make political points.

It's tiring when people act as though certain types of experience are badges of identity regardless of your own feelings about it, and those badges are taken to come with a whole passel of opinions, positions in debates, and alliances that you may or may not have any interest in.

I've worked long and hard to be able to stay alive in a world where my rapist's other victims also live and are witnesses to my abuse, as I was to theirs. That those other victims also abused me, and controlled me by threatening to expose what I had done (when all of us were pre-pubertal) did a serious job on my head, and it's taken a hard course of learning to forgive to be able not to have that abuse rule my life. Having learned that, I find it difficult to raise my voice for blood vengence on people who did less horrible things, and did not do them to me nor to other very young children within my sight. Therefore, I am an enabler. Or something.

*nods* I can't even begin to imagine what you've been through. But I have seen people who don't choose to forgive those who've abused them really look down on those who do, and I don't understand it. I don't think I can forgive the woman who abused me as a child, and I don't feel I "have to" or "should." But that's my own way of dealing with what happened to me. If someone else feels the best thing to do is forgive... that's that person's business. I've never understood the nonsense that goes like "well, I'm indignant, and if you're not or you want not to be you have no self-respect" or its inverse-yet-corrolary "Well, I forgave my abuser, so you just need to go through a painful process that will make you feel differently toward yours." Um, hello, people are different and have different responses to trauma?

I haven't so much forgiven the adults (married couple) as outlived them, which is even better- but the other kids (their two daughters and son, who had to be there all the time? If I can't forgive them, I can't forgive myself. And not forgiving your six-to-nine-year-old-self for being victimized is a hell of a way to live.

i think the point that "minority activists" are trying to make is that they've been pissed off because of something someone said, and the reason they're pissed off is their heritage. piping up with "but i'm cool with it!" seems to imply that you're invalidating their feelings, which is why they probably get defensive.

it also looks bad because then the person who did the offending can turn around and use you as the Minority Who Doesn't Care So Why Should Anyone Else. yeah, not your fault, but it happens constantly.

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