Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-04-28 07:47 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-04-28 07:47 pm
[ SECRET POST #1577 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
01.
__________________________________________________
02. [repeat]
__________________________________________________
03.
__________________________________________________
04.
__________________________________________________
05.
__________________________________________________
06.
__________________________________________________
07.
__________________________________________________
08.
__________________________________________________
09.
__________________________________________________
10.
__________________________________________________
TRIGGER WARNING FOR RAPE
11.
__________________________________________________
12.
__________________________________________________
13.
__________________________________________________
14.
__________________________________________________
15.
__________________________________________________
16. [repeat]
__________________________________________________
17.
__________________________________________________
18.
__________________________________________________
19.
__________________________________________________
20.
__________________________________________________
21.
__________________________________________________
22.
__________________________________________________
23.
__________________________________________________
24. [broken link]
__________________________________________________
25.
__________________________________________________
26.
__________________________________________________
27.
__________________________________________________
28.
__________________________________________________
29.
__________________________________________________
30.
__________________________________________________
31.
__________________________________________________
32.
__________________________________________________
33.
__________________________________________________
34.
__________________________________________________
35.
__________________________________________________
36.
__________________________________________________
37.
__________________________________________________
38.
__________________________________________________
39.
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 044 secrets from Secret Submission Post #225.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
no subject
It bothers me. Individual characters in Naruto don't bother me so much: I enjoy Sakura and I adore Hinata, and Konan is both gorgeous and kickass. But these characters are underutilized, often ignored, and their main character arcs all make them adjuncts to men in some way.
You'd agree with that kind of critcism, wouldn't you?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-04-29 04:16 am (UTC)(link)I see you have a Bakemonogatari icon. I actually recently finished watching the series a few months ago, and while I did like it, I find its portrayal of female characters extraordinarily problematic. For one, the show is practically filmed for the male gaze, and the degree to which women are objectified in the show makes me feel uneasy. (That being said, I suppose this criticism can all be hand-waved away since the story is essentially told from Araragi's point of view, and he is a male teenager with a healthy sex drive.) But for another, all the characters that need rescuing are, well ... female. And while Araragi himself gets into a few rough situations, most notably during Kanbaru's arc and to a lesser extent the ... cat arc (the name escapes me), the entire series is basically structured around the premise that there are these women out there who, for whatever reason, can't help themselves and need him to intervene in their lives in order to set things "right" again.
All this without covering the fact that every female character in the show seems to be attracted to him, even the self-proclaimed lesbian.
So, I'm kind of wondering what you think about the show's portrayal of women. I assume you liked it quite a bit, and I'd like to hear your thoughts about this if it's not too much trouble. I just trawled through your public journal entries to see if I could perhaps find a review of the show. I didn't see one, but feel free to just point me towards it if I somehow missed it.
Or you can just ignore me. That works too! XD
no subject
I thought Kanbaru was just playing Ryaryragi-san up so he'd pick her and dump Senjougahara, so Kanbaru could have Senjougahara all to herself?
cat arc (the name escapes me)
Hanekawa's the name of the character, maybe Tsubasa Cat? Or something, idk.
the entire series is basically structured around the premise that there are these women out there who, for whatever reason, can't help themselves and need him to intervene in their lives in order to set things "right" again.
That's because it's technically a harem genre, and that's what harem genres do; have one male and loads of females interact with him. However, Bakemonogatari is a harem genre done right, in which it features extremely interesting characters that're hilarious, well-developed and likable, each with problems they either don't know how to solve by themselves or don't particularly want to solve by themselves.
They just happen to, coincidentally, be female. idk it's how i see it.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-04-29 04:48 pm (UTC)(link)Kanbaru confuses me greatly, though from what I can tell in the actual novels, she is genuinely attracted to him. If my memory's not faulty, she pretty much said something along the lines of "I usually go for girls but I really wouldn't mind going out with you" in the novels after her arc had concluded. Which doesn't discount what you're saying in the least! It's possible (and very likely) that she's both attracted to him and had planned to take Senjoulwozzat for herself.
That's because it's technically a harem genre, and that's what harem genres do; have one male and loads of females interact with him [...] They just happen to, coincidentally, be female. idk it's how i see it.
You're contradicting yourself here. If it's a harem anime, then no, the characters don't just "happen" to all be female by coincidence. They're female to interact with the one male character to make it a harem anime.
Is that shoddy writing? Welllllllll. I wouldn't go so far as to say "shoddy" because it was done purposefully, but as I mentioned, it almost put me off the show, even though the show is theoretically right down my alley. I mean, it could be that I'm just criticizing the entire genre as a whole, simply because I don't truly see how balancing out the gender ratio a little more could have done anything but added to the complexity of the series.
I don't know. As a harem anime, sure, it's great; it works within the confines of its own genre very well! But it doesn't really subvert anything in the genre, and I guess that's what is bothering me. It could have been a 10/10 show for me, but because of the way it worked out, it's kind of hovering at a 7/10. Just a little frustrated at the lost potential, I suppose.
Did it achieve what it set out to do? Probably. Did it achieve what I thought it would do? Most definitely not.
no subject
WHAT, REALLY. I haven't read the novels, so I wouldn't know, but augh. Maybe she's still trying it on with him in the feeble hopes that it might one day work? Senjougahara would probably still be teasing her like the hilarious person she is, so...
You're contradicting yourself here. If it's a harem anime, then no, the characters don't just "happen" to all be female by coincidence. They're female to interact with the one male character to make it a harem anime.
I meant in terms of character, haha. When I judge a character, gender doesn't matter to me at all, since a shit character = shit character, whether they're male, female, hermaphrodites or a species of sentient plant.
Focusing just on the gender ratio, though, it is a harem in name only. ...At least, just from the anime series, 'cause I only watched that;;
I mean, it could be that I'm just criticizing the entire genre as a whole,
I watch loads of shitty harems, and I usually fucking hate them. The only reason I carry on watching them is for the one character that magically is a good one, l-lmao. Bakemonogatari was the second harem to make me ignore the fact it was a harem because the majority of the characters as well as the dialogue, pacing, narration and plot were FANTAAASTIC.
simply because I don't truly see how balancing out the gender ratio a little more could have done anything but added to the complexity of the series.
I don't see why the gender ratio should matter at all, personally. As long as the characters themselves are great, I honestly could not give a flying ballsack on a kebab whether they have tits or not.
don't know. As a harem anime, sure, it's great; it works within the confines of its own genre very well! But it doesn't really subvert anything in the genre, and I guess that's what is bothering me.
Watch Mai-HiME. I really enjoyed that, and honestly did not expect it to be classified as a MAGICAL GIRL SHOW of all things, considering everything was so well-developed and lovely and the characters were so amazing. I'd do some shameless plugging of Strike Witches, too, but lmao the fanservice in that is awful. I could ignore it, since I did tolerate Seikon no Qwaser just for Hikasa Yoko and Hana, but looool.
They're all kickass and amazing characters that're female, though, which I think sounds straight up your ally? idk lol.
Did it achieve what it set out to do? Probably. Did it achieve what I thought it would do? Most definitely not.
Well, if you go into Baka to Test to Shoukanjuu or something with expectations of something equal to Waiting for Godot, you're gonna be disappointed. A weird example, but I think you should judge the show on how it actually was, rather than how you expected it to be?
no subject
"i think what it subverts in the harem genre is that he is in a relationship for almost the entire series?
rather than just being about a single Pimpbro hanging and flirting with all his bitches.
i'm also pretty sure arararararagi needed saving, too! with the whole vampire thing that meme helped him out with.
so he was basically just passing on the torch of helpfulness, which isn't a bad thing."
W-Which is are very good points I didn't think of orz;;
ALSO
Watch Seikon no Qwaser.
Re-watch Bakemonogatari.
Compare.
Re: ALSO
(Anonymous) 2011-04-29 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)Re: ALSO
Bakemonogatari is not in the least bit ~*oppressive*~ or propaganda that males should lock their wives in kitchens because they can't walk out of the house without getting assailed by anthropomorphic personifications of supernatural myths.
Shit, could I have made any MORE typos?Re: ALSO
(Anonymous) 2011-04-29 04:58 pm (UTC)(link)Bakemonogatari is not in the least bit ~*oppressive*~ or propaganda that males should lock their wives in kitchens because they can't walk out of the house without getting assailed by anthropomorphic personifications of supernatural myths.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that - that's a little extreme - but there are implications in the show that I'm not fully comfortable with. (Women need men to save them - highlighted by the fact that, well, Senjougahara told Araragi that one of the things she liked about him is that he jumps in all the time to save her, despite the fact that she kind of saved him just as much as he saved her, as far as I can remember. Also underscored by the fact that all the female characters needed saving.)
Re: ALSO
It's what makes the porn industry their money, so idk.
Women need men to save them - highlighted by the fact that, well, Senjougahara told Araragi that one of the things she liked about him is that he jumps in all the time to save her,
That's because, in Japanese society, they're huge on the whole MY BUSINESS IS MINE SO YOU CAN FUCK OFF, and Rararagi-san's habit of butting in to help is frowned upon in general but something she personally likes about him.
Or that's how I interpreted it!
Also underscored by the fact that all the female characters needed saving.)
Arararagi-san's the main character, as well as having the "resources" of Oshino's help, so of course he's gonna save them all. Aryaryagi-san's character is centered around the fact he's a busybody who's trying to help everyone he meets, and the people he meets just happen to be female. It'd make a shit story if Kanbaru was following him and she had absolutely nothing wrong, considering that's an entire arc of character development they just wasted.
And Senjougahara is the one that saves her, anyway, because Araryagi-san was busy getting strangled with his play-dough intestines.If I'm 100% honest, AND I ALWAYS AM ;D, I don't see why the gender was brought up at all. I don't focus on it, I just focus on the quality of the characters, their personal dilemmas and the way the story progresses to solve their problems in a way that doesn't open up a corner store of dimensional plot warpholes.
no subject
What I meant- and what I thought OP was referring to?- is the line between a feminist critique of a series and hiding behind the veil of feminism to shit on female characters for not living up to the impossible standards set for them. It just seems that people use it as the new justification to hate on women in fiction now that fandom is becoming a space more defined by activism and analysis and you can no longer just say "bitch gets in the way of my yaoi pairing".
The more I began to care and educate myself about feminism, the more I began to like female characters in fiction even if I become increasingly frustrated with the creative minds behind these women. I'm always a little suspicious of the people in fandom who seem to have the opposite experience.
no subject
Calling the character a slut/moe shit/fat/weak/an insult to feminism/whatever (usually because of pairing shit or personal preferences, not because they actually give a damn about feminism) is another. The latter is very common in the Naruto fandom :/