Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-05-04 07:46 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-05-04 07:46 pm
[ SECRET POST #1583 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 83 secrets from Secret Submission Post #226.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
+1
(Anonymous) 2011-05-05 06:36 am (UTC)(link)Fapping to a historical tragedy like the Holocaust or the rape of plantation slaves? That is fucked up. That is wrong. That is people taking a specific experience very heavily affected by power and privilege and appropriating it for their sexual satisfaction, and that kind of oppressive shit is not okay.
Re: +1
The only reason fapping to something specific might be harmful is that you're fapping to something regarding someone who is alive now and could be harmed right now by your sexualization of it. Like idk, if you wrote fic based off a pedo on the news with his name and the names of his victims in the fic. That would be harmful to the victim and is therefore wrong.
However, plantation slaves? They're all dead. That was a hell of a long time ago. None of those people can be hurt now. The experience of slavery was pretty fucking generalized a few hundred years ago; it's just not now.
The Holocaust might be a different can of worms - there are still survivors of that. But TBH things like plantation slaves and the Holocaust you could also call generalized because they are things that happened to a LOT of people, not just specific people.
And stop throwing around phrases like "power and privilege" in an attempt to beef up your SJ boner. Rape and shota involve power and privilege, not just historical tragedy.
1 of 2
The only reason fapping to something specific might be harmful is that you're fapping to something regarding someone who is alive now and could be harmed right now by your sexualization of it.
You are assuming that slavery, the Shoah, etc., are not painful for the living descendants of their victims. This is not the case.
Like idk, if you wrote fic based off a pedo on the news with his name and the names of his victims in the fic. That would be harmful to the victim and is therefore wrong.
You are using a very narrow definition of "victim." Would it be less wrong if this hypothetical pedophile's victims had been killed by him and their parents found the fic in question? Or their grandparents? Or their siblings? Or their friends? If someone became pregnant from a rape that was very well publicized, then that fic was written and twenty years later, her child found it, would that be less harmful? How about her child's children, knowing what a huge source of pain it had been for their parent and grandparent?
One part of the reason violence and rape is so terrible is because it cannot be localized. There's a ripple effect that hurts all of their loved ones and their loved ones' loved ones.
However, plantation slaves? They're all dead. That was a hell of a long time ago. None of those people can be hurt now. The experience of slavery was pretty fucking generalized a few hundred years ago; it's just not now.
Their children and grandchildren are still here. The night of Barack Obama's inauguration, a pretty well publicized part of the event was how he had spoken that day with a ninety-year-old daughter of former slaves. Would you like to tell her that plantation slavery was a hell of a long time ago and isn't hurting anyone anymore? Or her children and grandchildren who have grown up knowing her, loving her and hearing her story?
The Holocaust might be a different can of worms - there are still survivors of that.
...thanks, I guess? Woo, we made the cut.
But TBH things like plantation slaves and the Holocaust you could also call generalized because they are things that happened to a LOT of people, not just specific people.
Really? Because, uh...I can think of rather a lot of people for whom this was pretty damn specific. The number of victims of plantation slavery, the Shoah, Nanking, makes these events more horrifying, not less.
Yes, I know, the person you're replying to tried to tried to excuse shota and rape by saying they're more generalized and they're not using a specific victim's tragedy. But that's not the real difference. The real difference is that fandom contains a lot more survivors of rape than the average social circle. Rape survivors with a rape kink, consent play kink, etc., are pretty common. People who fear being raped and sexualize that fear to turn it into something they can live with are pretty common. People who are identifying with the victim in the rape scenarios they write (rather than the perpetrator) are pretty common. These people are taking their own individual pain or fear and turning it into a kink; not someone else's. Using someone else's is pretty skeevy.
And stop throwing around phrases like "power and privilege" in an attempt to beef up your SJ boner.
I would never deny that rape and shota involve power and privilege. But the power and privilege involved is often just as much part of the creator's life as it is the character's. And that matters. If fear of racism/racist violence is not part of your daily life, you are appropriating it when you write plantation slave kink fic. If fear of Antisemitism/Antisemitic violence (or anti-Roma prejudice/violence, or homophobia and homophobic violence, etc., etc.) is not part of your daily life, you are appropriating it in Nazi kink fic. Full stop.
2 of 2
Rape and shota involve power and privilege, not just historical tragedy.
It's not "just" historical tragedy. Read the comments here. (http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/38631337.html) Anti-Roma prejudice and violence is still going on, and in some places still legally enforced. Read the entry and comments here. (http://www.drudge.com/archive/127021/lebanon-censors-anne-franks-diary) Antisemitism is alive and kicking and the law of the land in some places, and so is rather a lot of people's desire to claim the Shoah never even happened. Try out this thread. (http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28956) Black people are still subjected to racialized violence, and people still act like it's fake, doesn't matter, or is otherwise worth dismissing. Look at this. (http://cliffordcoonan.dreamhosters.com/blog/?p=359) What living survivors of Nanking and their families still have to deal with. Or this. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/06/15/homophobic-hate-crime-in-_n_52320.html) How homophobia still destroys lives and bodies.
It is real, and it matters, and maybe outsiders using it to get off just isn't okay.
Re: 2 of 2
(Anonymous) 2011-05-06 05:49 am (UTC)(link)Re: 2 of 2
Some people don't know who their kink is hurting, because hey, it's just kink, it's fictional, it doesn't mean anyone's endorsing it in real life. (Never mind that fandom still periodically has the fight about whether or not survivors of rape, abuse, etc., are entitled to warning labels to be able to avoid reading it- somehow, no one having this fight remembers that there's plenty of people out there who say this hurts, but you don't have to stop writing it, just be aware of who it hurts when you treat it the same as consensual sex in a community setting.)
Some people know and don't care, as OP observed. So, choose not to care. That's a choice no one's taking away from you- that no one can take away from you. If other people caring bothers you, well...sorry. If we're not entitled to a community where everyone cares, I don't see why others are entitled to one where everyone approves.
Re: +1
(Anonymous) 2011-05-05 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)Unlike women being raped, amirite? No oppressive shit there! No real people affected by that! Never been used as a weapon in war etc!
Jesus, you people are so full of shit. You only care about particular issues and ignore others. You think you have the right to look at oppressed groups and put them on some hierarchy of suffering? It's disgusting. "Oh, a woman being gangraped but she's white, it's okay! Fap away!"