Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-07-27 08:05 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-07-27 08:05 pm
[ SECRET POST #1667 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Posting this while LJ is up. Comment threads to follow
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 099 secrets from Secret Submission Post #238.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2011-07-28 08:14 am (UTC)(link)Look godammit we just had this same dumbass argument a few days ago, so I'll just get it out of the way now:
Someone will be like "But if the characters have chemistry is it really that big of a deal to put them together regardless of their established sexuality?"
Someone else will say something like "IT'S NOT THE SAAAAAME BLAH BLAH OPPRESSION BLAH BLAH BLAH"
then someone else will be like "It's fucking fanfiction, who gives a shit?"
and then someone will start throwing around the word "privilege" until it loses all meaning
and then some idiot will screech "FANDOM DOES NOT EXIST IN A VACUUM!!!!!"
This will go on. And on. And on.
and inevitably I will want to stab all of you
So I am asking -nay, demanding- that all of you ignore this secret and save us all a lot of rage
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Hehe... wanking is a synonym for masturbating. :D
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(Anonymous) 2011-07-28 06:29 pm (UTC)(link)But really, after a certain point I start to hate both sides pretty equally, especially since it seems we do this same dance at least once a month. Thanks to lj's fuckery though, I don't think people are motivated enough to even try to argue about it now which is nice.
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I'd love to discuss this sometime in a manner that didn't boil down to "PRIVILEGE!!!" / "u mad?", but that will probably never happen. You're right; it's probably for the best we're DOSed right now.
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You don't like it? don't read it. Give it a shitty review if you actually can point out why it's shitty. That's as far as it should go with anything you don't like, no matter why you don't like it, with the possible exception of obvious trollbait or other blatantly horrible things (like some hatefic with rl personal info of a person you don't like or something).
if I would get mad about anything, it'd probably be rapefic. When you come right down to it, that's a pretty messed up topic. Seems like that'd be more important then silly sexual preference switching. Mind, I'm not saying go after that, since that still falls under "shit I've no right to tell other people what to do." But, of course, people will still feel entitled to never see something that offends their sensibilities.
Just so that we don't break tradition here, one last divergence
U MAD, PRIVILEGED KID?! Sure!
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Sure it doesn't, but nor do public discussions about what people find offensive or problematic have to be shut down if those happen to offend somebody who likes the types of fiction under discussion. Frankly, the freedom of speech argument cuts against those complaining about fandom social justice as deeply as it does the social justice crowd itself - you're allowed to write anything you want, no matter how offensive and problematic, that's your freedom of speech in action, but those people talking about how offensive and problematic it is are simply exercising their own.
Those against the fandom social justic crowd really have no choice but to rely on the "sure, it's their free speech, but it's not very nice" as much as the fandom social justice crowd does.
I mean...
"shit I've no right to tell other people what to do."
...technically means you've got no right to tell people not to criticize others. That's what they want to do, why can't they?
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Mind, this doesn't apply to debate like here though. And that goes beyond fanfiction, into simple etiquette, and the old "it's okay to not like things.mp3" that needs to be played for half the things ever discussed here.
(remix! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-p33001J-0)
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(Anonymous) 2011-07-28 07:30 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
SOOOOO excited to see a Warehouse secret! Much love anon. Come check out our lj community if you haven't already. We're a fun bunch.
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(Anonymous) 2011-07-28 06:57 pm (UTC)(link)I don't understand why this is a point of controversy in this comm, honestly. I see people with rape kinks/Nazi kinks and lolicon/shoutacon fans get regularly reassured that as long as they can separate fantasy from reality, they can fap to whatever they want. Hell, wasn't
I've never seen anyone who wrote a canonically gay character in a het relationship do so because they wanted to "cure" the gay character, or because they didn't respect the character's canon orientation. The people who write such pairings do so for the same reasons people write any other pairing - because they like the dynamic, or find both characters hot, or wtf ever. Judging someone based on their shipping preferences is fucking stupid.
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(Anonymous) 2011-07-28 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-07-29 01:43 am (UTC)(link)Except those kinks don't deal with erasure? Kinks aren't just kinks, they have a reason why people find it kinky (rape kink usually deal of getting off a feeling of no control, Nazi kinks are mostly due to their uniforms or seeing some goodness in a very dark period of human history [although this is problematic because it can cause some Nazi fetishists to gross over the atrocities they done], lolicon/shotacon is more of the corruption of something that is perceived as innocent [that's why you find in a lot of shota/lolicon is that the "child" often doesn't act like one].
I mean, it's one thing to make a gay character bisexual but there is a world of difference to make them straight.
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Also, you just described 3 things that I think people could have perfectly good reasons to get upset over. An older Jewish holocaust survivor raped as a child could find those things very very offensive to them, irregardless of why you wrote it. And a gay person could be upset over what they see as erasure.
But you know what? It's fanfiction, and you shouldn't give a shit. Because it's just fucking fanfiction.
Best example was pointed out in one of the other threads. Lets say you got a sandbox. It's yours. You can invite others to play in your sandbox. Your in a park with lots of sandboxes. Some of which have the same toys but have people playing with them very differently.
If you want your sandbox to have barbie kiss Shipwreck from Gi Joe, and somebody else has ken kissing shipwreck, and a third person has barbie kissing sailor moon and godzilla, none of this effects what's going on in your sandbox. And if you go tell the other kids they can't play that way in their sandbox because that's wrong if they do it that way... your the fucking asshole kid in the park.
And nothing going on in any the sandboxes changes how Shipwreck acts in the GI Joe cartoon, or what Matel uses for Barbies characterization, or what Godzilla is doing in that badly dubbed movie on vcr.
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But, y'know, I think it's also hinky when fandom gays up a canonically straight character just because they're some degree of gender non-conformist. (e.g, straight male canonically likes pink- "HE MUST BE GAY!", straight female is a so-called tomboy- "SHE MUST BE A LESBIAN!" No. No, no, no. You are stereotyping, okay? You are stereotyping and it makes me cringe.)
And I think some of the kinks fandom gets down with sometimes are a little hinky. (Oh G-d, I don't want to have the Nazi kink argument again.)
But the thing is, that's the way fandom rolls a lot of the time. I think it can be worthwhile to discuss (not fight over, discuss!). I think that people should ask themselves what they're doing and why they're doing it, and I think others should be free to tell them if their orientation-switch 'shipping was done offensively. (As someone above pointed out, there's a difference between a fic where a gay character, say, makes an exception and ends up in a het relationship, and a fic that has an obvious, screaming "cure the queer!" agenda.)
But in the end, it's fandom and you get to choose how you engage with it and what you do for fun in it. The end.
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2) I don't care what anyone does with a character in fanfic. That said, if WH13 introduces him as gay and hooks him up with Claudia, I'm going to be upset.
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