fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1671 ]

[ SECRET POST #1671 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1671 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 170 secrets from Secret Submission Post #239.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

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Yep, I do realize, and that's why I apologized above for my kneejerk reaction because, like I've said, it's a sore spot for me (I've had many stories from my country where people - that I'm assuming are from a Western culture because they speak/wrote in English and are making the comparison - make the assumption that those stories are based off English stories when, if they knew more about my country's culture and the actual basis of the stories would realize otherwise).

I understand people are more likely to make comparisons and draw parallels to things they are more familiar with and to a Western culture, that would be Western literature (e.g. a playboy might be compared to, say, Casanova instead of Genji despite Tales of Genji also available in English for many, many years). Once again, it's just one of my nerve points, and, coupled with this thread and how most people's comments of not really caring that Disney plagiarized, I reacted more than I should have. (The, uh, ALL CAPS part was an exaggeration on what I felt, IDK if I made it clear enough, but if it wasn't, I apologize.)

Also, not to be nitpicky, but I don't think Shakespeare's works would've been available for hundreds of years considering Commodore Perry's trip wasn't until the 1850s and even then, Japan was relatively closed off to the rest of the world. (That's... just me being very nitpicky, sorry.) You're completely right, of course, and that Hamlet is available in Japan, probably commonly so, but given that the plot of Kimba bears almost no resemblance to Hamlet, I'm still going to stand by my opinion that Kimba was not based off it.

...And one of these days, I will learn how to write short, succinct replies.

I asked this of someone else, but define plagiarism as you mean it. Lifting a few element from someone else, lifting major elements from another story, copying a story, what?

I have different definitions of plagiarism if we're talking about writing vs art, so for this one, I'll give my writing definition.

As a writer myself, I understand that unique story ideas are hard to come by, coincidences happen, and inspiration comes from everywhere. So for me, if you intentionally use a large amount or more of another person's work without crediting them somehow, I consider it plagiarism. (There's also unintentional plagiarism, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.)

What Disney did was base their movie off someone else's work, and, once they found out they couldn't obtain the rights to it, instead of facing up and admitting that, look, this was inspired/based off someone else's work, pretended their source, Kimba, did not exist and refused to acknowledge it. If Disney had just straight up admitted their inspiration, I would have no issues about it. That for me is plagiarism, but I understand that my definition and others will differ.

If you don't mind me asking, what would be yours?

I use more of the copyright definition. Has this work been significantly changed (and to a lesser extent is it clear what the source material is)?

Does Lion King have elements in common with Kimba? YUP! Are those elements unique to Kimba? Eh, not so much. Lion on the rock - easy to get there from Bambi, prince of the forest on the rock; spirit of deceased in sky, seen that a million times; love interest/best friend - yawn. (The bug/vegetarian thing would be the most damning in my book as it is relatively unique.)

The problem is that 90% of the similarities seem to be found either in Hamlet or Bambi or are just generic.

The other thing is that you can rip something off/draw heavy inspiration from it without it being plagiarism. Antz and a Shark Tale came out mighty close to A Bug's Life and Finding Nemo (debatably Sinbad and Atlantis too), but while clearly not pure coincidence, they're different enough in execution that I wouldn't call it plagiarism.

There's the example I spoke of here about the similarity of Care Bears and My Little Pony, and as far as I know there's not any sort of controversy there: http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/732637.html?thread=464442333#t464442333 The fact is that those works have a ton in common, but I wouldn't say it's plagiarism, cut from the same cloth, yes, plagiarism, no.

Basically, my stance is that you can start with a kernel of an idea from somewhere else, but that doesn't mean the final product will be enough like it to be plagiarized. The way I see it, the similarities would be someone using the same phrasing a couple of times and maybe one or two similar plot points in a novel-length book. There are similarities, but the movie is different enough that it's a different beast.

Still, the idea of an eastern story being inspired by a western one isn't exactly unknown territory, nor one I think would be offensive in nature.

Because it's based out of ignorance of the source material or assuming that the culture doesn't have a myth like that or projecting your own culture on someone else's?

No it's not. I mean, it COULD be, but it's not inherently so.

So says you in your vast experience and understanding?

So...my saying that you shouldn't assume that it's always out of ignorance or projection is somehow inferior to your claim that it always must be no matter what?

No, my point was that it could be. You were acting like it never was.

I just said "I mean, it COULD be". My exact words.

Nice change in story there: "nor do I think [it] would be offensive in nature."

Are you not reading my words? I haven't changed anything. You can see my exact words right up there.

Forget it, I'm not even bothering with you if you can't even bother to read what I just wrote and accuse me of changing my "story" even though everything is there and unaltered.

And this post never existed? http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/732637.html?thread=464756189#t464756189

I was quoting you too.

Which was the thought of an eastern story being inspired by a western one, not the assumption that ALL eastern stories would be inspired by western stories. Are you HONESTLY not seeing any difference at all?

Yes, I can. However, asking a tall black man if he can run fast can still be offensive, whether or not you ask all black people if they can run fast.

...Oh wow, you're literally pulling offense out of thin air!

No this is it, I'm done. Have fun seeing offense and hypocracy in everything you view, because at least you'll keep busy.

ORLY? How?

Actually I'm pretty laid-back. As far as I can tell you think that the only possible right answer is yours. :)

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[ SECRET POST #1671 ]

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