[ SECRET POST #1676 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1676 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Toriko]


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03.
[Bubble Sisters, After School, Beast and T-ARA]


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04.


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05.
[Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters]


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06.
[Frezned/YouTube]


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07.


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08.
[Orc Stain]


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09.


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10.
[Tiger & Bunny]


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11.


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12.


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13.


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14.
[My Fair Lady]


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15.


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16.
(Strawberry Shortcake's Berry Bitty Adventures)


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17.


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18.
[Glee]


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19. [tb]


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]











20. [SPOILERS for Harry Potter]



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21. [SPOILERS for Harry Potter]



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22. [SPOILERS for Voyager]



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23. [SPOILERS for Agents of Cracked]



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24. [SPOILERS for A Dance with Dragons/A Song of Ice and Fire]



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25. [SPOILERS for A Dance with Dragons]



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26. [SPOILERS for A Dance with Dragons]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













27. [TRIGGER WARNING for self injury]



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28. [TRIGGER WARNING for suicide]



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29. [TRIGGER WARNING for non-con and pedophilia]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #239.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

Damn

I'll never stop being surprised at the "your kink is not my kink" attitude being espoused everywhere in fandom... EXCEPT when it's something that really bothers me and is extremely disturbing. Then, you're sick and need help.

[punishermax.livejournal.com]

I think the issue at hand is that not all kinks are created equal. I personally have a think for women with, how you say, large posteriors. Now this kink in itself is tame because one could create a variety of stories involving sexual acts with said lady in a consentual manner.

When we drift into this kink meme, the acts themselves are reprehensible and therefore carry the weight of real life acts. I mean, reading that doctor prompt was disturbing because I know there are real life instances of a child being abused by a trusted doctor.

My main problem stems from the idea that I think on some level people who request these stories have a kink for this type of act which honestly disturbs me

I'm not going to judge people, but I am going to say the issue is not black and white and not about people suppressing people based on fictional stories.

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

I think the issue at hand is that not all kinks are created equal.

No. Wrong. All kinks ARE created equal in fiction.

My main problem stems from the idea that I think on some level people who request these stories have a kink for this type of act which honestly disturbs me

You're operating under an assumption which is unproven, illogical, and dangerous.

[punishermax.livejournal.com]

But then I'm legitimately curious as to why a person would request a story if on a certain level they are not aroused by the acts in it.

I'M IN THE MOOD TO USE SCAT AS AN EXAMPLE

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

let's say someone likes to read stories about being shit on

ok that's gross right? but it doesn't necessarily mean they actually want to be shit on in real life

maybe they are aroused by the humiliation, power dynamics, etc which inevitably come into play. and not necessarily by the thought of fecal matter itself.

in other words, people can be turned on by the same thing for more than one reason

Re: I'M IN THE MOOD TO USE SCAT AS AN EXAMPLE

[punishermax.livejournal.com]

Can't say I woke up this morning thinking I'd be having this conversation

Re: I'M IN THE MOOD TO USE SCAT AS AN EXAMPLE

[cafune.livejournal.com]

i love you

Re: I'M IN THE MOOD TO USE SCAT AS AN EXAMPLE

[captain-loki.livejournal.com]

For me, it's sort of like tentacle porn.

I've read some tentacle porn in my day, and while some of it I find LULZY as frak because...I mean tentacle porn! I find some of it intriguing.

For me, it has to do with the concept of being fully...stimulated...by something that clearly is not confined to the boundaries of human anatomy, but also the fact that one doesn't necessarily have to...how to put it...do any of the work, but lay back and say mm tentacles.

however, if faced with a tentacle...monster...IRL I would be less likely to throw myself at its sexual mercy and more likely to run away in horror.

[cold-river-blue.livejournal.com]

My only hope is that a lot of those prompts are trollish prompts, and are meant to be the most disturbing things ever. Or are just a few people with a very specific desire for pedophilia stories, who don't ever intend to act on any of those desires outside of fiction. That is my hope. My fear is that the SPN kink meme has become known as a place where pedophiles can gather, and that there are as many individuals asking for this sort of thing as the secrets about that place would have us believe.

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

But then I'm legitimately curious as to why a person would request a story if on a certain level they are not aroused by the acts in it.

You can't think of anything you might compare it to? Stuff that you're drawn to in fiction that would horrify you IRL?

There's rape fantasy, which a lot of women have, but there can be more mundane things, too. For instance, a lot of us like reading about characters like Harry Potter and A Little Princess being forced to live under the stairs and be mistreated horribly because we find it cathartic for a lot of reasons that we can't fully explain.

Not to mention that what arouses a person is rarely so easily defined. I'm sure for a lot of people who request those kinds of stories, it's not that they're attracted to children and therefore want to read about them, but just the fact that it's the worst, most evil sexual taboo in our society that makes GOING THERE an exciting act in and of itself. It's not the subject matter necessarily that's hot, but the breaking of the strongest taboo. The fact that it's SO FUCKING WRONG.

Think Victorian men creaming their pants over a flash of ankle back in the day. Did Victorian women somehow have the hottest ankles in history? No, it was the taboo that sexually excited them.

But you know, I don't much like going down this path because it leads to the idea that "you can like this kink only if you think of THIS while reading it and not of THIS," etc etc. I'm done judging people on the thoughts that go through their mind, or that they LIKE going through their mind, when they're fapping or preparing to fap, just because it's so scattershot and illogical and impossible for them to control.

Sexual fantasy as explored in fictional expression is a different realm, totally divorced from reality, and all research points to this, over and over and over.

[punishermax.livejournal.com]

First of all I appreciate that you are writing well reasoned responses for my questions. Second I'm not going to spend my days tracking down the people who requested this fics and beating them with internet rocks. My issue was that I personally found these prompts to be horrific and awful. My questions about psychology come not from me trying to bait you but from my actual ignorance of this stuff. I'm not a student of it, I took one college course, so I'm ignorant of it.

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with being squicked. I'm hardcore squicked by 90% of what's currently en vogue in fandom, like incest. What I don't understand is people accepting and respecting the "safe fictional expression" of that and (for the most part) rape fantasy despite their squick, but doing a 180 when it comes to extreme de-aged kink porn.

Kink acceptance doesn't extend to what you can justify and understand, or even personally tolerate. A lot of people really seem to miss that.

[cafune.livejournal.com]

you don't understand why people might break their own "i accept this" for kids? kids are nearly universally sacred and taboo in most cultures. everyone has been a kid. there are people in fandom (probably in this very thread) who have children of their own. children are intensely personal and inspire intensely personal reactions, for the most part. someone reading a rape prompt might be able to skip over it, but someone reading a prompt calling for a doctor molesting his young patient will think of the children they love, who they trust with a stranger. children are regarded as innocent and untouchable. it should not be very surprising that most people will agree that other stuff is just a kink, but come down extremely hard on fic like in the op's secret.

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

I've requested stuff on kink memes before simply because I thought it would be interesting/wanted to lend inspiration to anyone up for writing something unusual. I see kink memes as being more about lending inspiration to others than getting fics written that I personally find arousing.

I definitely wouldn't prompt something like what's shown in the secret, and when I see a prompt like those, that are super detailed, I do assume that the person writing them is into what they're requesting. But I'm just responding to the general idea of prompting something that you, personally, don't find arousing. I've done it a lot.

[(Anonymous)]

But then I'm legitimately curious as to why a person would request a story if on a certain level they are not aroused by the acts in it.

Perhaps for the exact opposite reason. Have you not considered that within the realm of the kink meme are some individuals who have had real life fucked up shit happen to them. And maybe they don't know anyone to whom they can relate (which is not an unheard of concept in fandom, taking into account the hordes of lurkers - which the anonymity of such memes inherently invite). And maybe some of these anonymous fandom lurkers request such a fic as an outlet for what happened to them. Maybe reading about a fictional instance of a fictional character going through something similar to what their own experiences and reading about how aforementioned fictional characters deal with said traumatic event helps them in some small way.

This is especially true for such sensitive subjects as children being molested or rape. Requesting such a thing is a subjective matter. As already stated by people more articulate than I, everyone gets something different out of such things.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. I like torture fics. A lot. And I tend to fantasize about myself being tortured. I don't read them to get aroused, though I know a lot of readers do (my sexual kinks actually tend towards the dominant). I read them because they are cathartic and help me deal with my issues.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

No. Wrong. All kinks ARE created equal in fiction.

Nope. It is different to want to masturbate to an atrocity than it is to want to masturbate to something innocuous. I would judge a person who made a kinkmeme request for "somebody jacks off onto a mass grave" and not a person who requested "two guys, one girl, consensual double penetration." Because one is a horrifying idea and the other is not.

I'm not saying these writers should be thrown in jail because in order to make something a crime lawmakers should be able to prove it's harmful and that its harmfulness outweighs the cost to freedom it would take to make it illegal. The infringement on freedom of speech would be too great. That doesn't mean we should all consider it socially acceptable.

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

"two guys, one girl, consensual double penetration." Because one is a horrifying idea and the other is not.

It's horrifying to you. Oddly, horror is a subjective concept. But at least you got the point that it's an idea -- which is nice because that way we don't have to sort the acceptable from the unacceptable. It's all thoughts.

I assume you also disapprove of rape prompts? Unless it's condemned in fic and tamped out of any trace of trying to arouse.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

I would probably judge a person who says "I fantasize about holding people down and violently raping them." I would not judge a person who says, "I have a fantasy about being raped." In the same way, I disapprove of some underage fic but not others, and in many cases it comes down to what experience is being fetishized (the experience of attacking or the experience of being attacked).

Do you really disagree that some ideas should be universally horrifying, like genocide and rape of children? Sex does horrify some people. But it's not a widely agreed horrifying thing in most parts of the world nowadays. Sex with a baby is pretty much universally agreed to be a horrifying atrocity.

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

it comes down to what experience is being fetishized (the experience of attacking or the experience of being attacked).

can i just say that i'm really really happy that you made this distinction, even if i don't really necessarily agree with your point overall? because a lot of people fail to do this and i think it can make a big difference.

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

Do you really disagree that some ideas should be universally horrifying, like genocide and rape of children?

I don't understand where you're going with this. Rape of women or men ISN'T universally horrifying? Or it isn't as long as you're envisioning yourself as the victim?

What if you're a woman reading a m/f rapefic and get off to it envisioning yourself as the man raping the woman? Is it okay if the reader in question is a rape victim? In the prompts quoted, many of them talk about de-aged adults. Is that more acceptable than if they're regular children? What if they keep their memories and maturity in a children's body?

Sexual fantasy doesn't follow any of the rules or logic of actual happening-in-reality phenomena. Someone saying "I want to read a fic where a man rapes a woman, and I will probably imagine myself as the man" is NOT saying "I want to rape people," just as someone saying "I want to read a fic where a man rapes a woman, and I will probably imagine myself as the woman" is NOT saying "I want to be raped." This is Kinky Porn 101 here.

I disapprove of some underage fic but not others, and in many cases it comes down to what experience is being fetishized (the experience of attacking or the experience of being attacked).

This is the definition of policing thought. In addition to being misguided, it's totally impossible in practice, because the act of fantasizing rarely if ever keeps matters so separate and clear-cut.

[(Anonymous)]

I just want to say "thank you" for your eloquent and well-thought-out responses to this topic.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think the distinction works, though. Because the fantasy of being attacked would come from a more submissive sexuality, and fantasizing about attacking (in a fictional setting) may by the same token come from a more dominant sexuality. It is like, some people have rape fantasies, and some may act out consensual rape play. There is a partner in that setting, someone who is playing the role of the rapist in the fantasy. And as long as all the actual real life sex acts are consensual, there is nothing wrong with being the person in that role. And in the fictional setting, there is nothing any more wrong with those rape fantasies from the rapist POV. Because fiction does not equal reality, and in real life someone with those fantasies is going to engage in consensual sexual acts that may have some connection to the fantasies (bondage, consensual rape play, etc.).

[(Anonymous)]

I agree wholeheartedly with this argument.

Also, wouldn't it be easy to prove that it's harmful, considering that most of this kind of fiction is out there for any kid who reads the internet to see?

[(Anonymous)]

Can we judge all the rape/non-con prompts then? Rape is a reprehensible act that happens in real life all the time and never fails to be disgusting when it does. Let's just get rid of all the non-con prompts because CLEARLY the prompters are fantasizing about raping people.

No seriously, if anything, people who request this type of fic are interested in the power dynamics between fictional characters they like, from a voyeuristic point of view (or they may just be interested in seeing how you'd write a fic like this). This is completely different from fantasizing about abusing children...