[ SECRET POST #1691 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1691 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 314 secrets from Secret Submission Post #242.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[nadinthedreamer.livejournal.com]

I hope this'll happen!

[intoalkaseltzer.livejournal.com]

what :| it's like genetic racism ...

[nadinthedreamer.livejournal.com]

excuse moi?

[intoalkaseltzer.livejournal.com]

oops, i didn't mean it in a shit-starting way, just in the sense that people with a more "ideal" genetic makeup were in a higher social class and got better jobs, basically that it was a way to discriminate

[(Anonymous)]

If you know for a fact that someone, who's stronger and more intelligent than you, gets a better job/into a better college/etc., that's not racism. That's life.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, but the fact is people are also being judged because they *might* get a disorder, and because they're genetics say that 'This seems like the mostly like;y age they'll die at', ect. That is discrimination, particularly seeing as it's being used to discriminate before the disorder/ect even shows up.

[(Anonymous)]

Me too. We watched it in class to basically show us how terrible the idea is, but I came out of it thinking it was a great idea.

[joshua-glass.livejournal.com]

You want people to be prejudged by the fact that they MIGHT be predisposed to having a genetic condition, so they should never amount to anything in life? Wow... I'm hoping you're being sarcastic.

[stepstostars.livejournal.com]

You want people to have to go through with life HAVING genetic disorders?

The processes in the movie could basically eradicate all genetic diseases, and tbh, in my opinion that outweighs any downsides. You can basically ensure that you child will have a healthy life, who wouldn't want that?

[joshua-glass.livejournal.com]

But Ethan Hawke's character wasn't cured of his potential genetic disorders, he was judged by them. The thought that he might not live past 35 or might have a heart condition was what disqualified him from doing what he wanted with his life.

I'm not saying we shouldn't work towards eradicating diseases (genetic and otherwise), just that judging someone's future potential based on 'maybes' is never a good thing in my books.

[stepstostars.livejournal.com]

iirc, there was a 95% chance he would have a heart disorder. I'd think that would be a legitimate concern for his safety.

I mean, yes, he was willing to give his life for his dream, but how many parents would allow their children throw away their lives needlessly? How many people would allow someone a chance at something if they only had a 5% chance they could complete it? How many people are near suicidal enough to reach for something that might kill them?

I understand how it might seem kind of horrible to judge someone based on a chance, but I feel like knowing that you have an extremely high chance of X, (and yes, you will possibly be judged for it), is better than flailing around in the dark.

tl;dr: Yes, the movie does bring up some ethical concerns, but the discrimination in the movie is for pretty legitimate reasons + the upsides of genetic engineering outweigh the downsides (in my opinion, at least.)

(sorry, deleted because I wanted to correct something >>)

[joshua-glass.livejournal.com]

I totally understand what you mean, and yeah there aren't a lot of parents that would let their kid do something with such a small chance of success (if not succeeding = dying), but it just bothers me that a great deal of people who are behind this sort of genetic... selection I guess is the word, wouldn't be doing it for someone's personal welfare, but to breed out what they deem "unworthy" traits, and I think that's what worries me the most.

Or maybe I'm just too cynical. XD

[stepstostars.livejournal.com]

Haha, yeah I can understand where the concern for genetic engineering/selection/etc. could come from, it's just that I've seen so many poorly argued "AHH, SCIENCE = BABADHORRIBLE" arguments, aggh.

Any power that can do good can also do harm, but it just seems people won't even allow research into these subjects because of that tiny possibility of the worst-case scenario shown in movies/books/etc. o__x;

[joshua-glass.livejournal.com]

Maybe we can bribe them with chocolate to have common sense when it comes to genetic selection? XD

But yeah, I am all for curing things. Coming from someone who has maybe a handful of working organs, fixing genetic issues would be awesome. XD

[stepstostars.livejournal.com]

CHOCOLATE.

Everyone loves chocolate, I dig that plan.

Haha, oh, man, yeah, I can see how that would be extremely helpful. Unfortunately, we don't even know what half our genes do~ and they're extremely complicated and do not want to be solved. >>;

I'm sorry, but I don't have a happy icon yet. But Patrick Stewart in pink works, riight?

[joshua-glass.livejournal.com]

Chocolaaate~. Even I love it, and I'm allergic. XD

It's honestly amazing how even seemingly simple organisms have such complex genes. It'd probably be long past our time before we finish mapping them. :/

[stepstostars.livejournal.com]

D: Allergic to chocolate? Aw, well, nutella ftw, right? <3

Haha, well, I do believe that just sequencing DNA is relatively easy (with PCR and better technology now), figuring out what they do. Then, well, we're screwed :D; especially because sometimes a combination of genes code for a single trait (stupid trolling genes), and most of our DNA is...trash/useless, pretty much. (:

yaay, everyone loves Patrick Stewart pink!

[ecoerrante.livejournal.com]

Sorry to pounce on this way later, but - personally I saw the issue as it was making a very big gap of 'higher class' and 'lower class' that was, for all intents and purposes, like a caste system that was decided by if you genetics were modified before birth or not.

If I remember correctly, the set up with the movie [and honestly, how I see it going down in RL] most of the people who had their genetics modified had it down before birth - presumably paid for, since the doctor basically sold it as a 'You don't have to, but don't you want the best baby you can have?' speech. Which leaves the people who, for whatever reason [Parents couldn't afford it/it wasn't available for whatever reason] with being inferior genetically - and thus being in the lower caste, who's stuck with janitorial level jobs, regardless of their other abilities. Iirc, Ethan even said that it had split society into two classes, and that if you were the 'genetic inferior' class you were stuck there for life, no way out.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the movie was arguing against using genetic manipulation in and of itself, but more warning against the possible social consequences that could come with it, and impact society negatively. But again, that's just my opinion.

[stepstostars.livejournal.com]

No, it's fine, I'm all for having a good discussion.

I understand how it could become a genetically modified vs. genetically inferior world, but I don't think that any of the genetically inferior were ever modified in general. iirc, the doctor gave the speech because they wanted "to leave something to chance" made me think that genetic modification was relatively cheap or government supplied, considering how widespread it is.

The discrimination against "invalids" is pretty disgusting, but (this isn't a justification, I realize) we do this everyday already when we have our clothes made by cheap labor in China instead of making them ourselves, or have our food picked by migrant workers. But the genetically modified are supposed to be better (at least physically, I believe), and it seems a relatively natural process of being better --> better jobs, though it is comes off as discrimination. People want to hire the better candidates, which the "valids" seem to be (in general).

It could very well be that however intelligent/skilled you are is based off of how much money you spend, like how Jerome/Jude Law had wonderful genes vs. others, but I remember how the doctor was basically saying, "We're just choosing the best of each [parent]." (I haven't watched in forever, so I might be wrong.) I also think it's relatively far-fetched to think that your intelligence/work ethic/etc. could be based solely off genetics alone, considering how complicated it is to understand already.

But I digress; yes, the movie was arguing that genetic manipulation was wrong, but I found that I disagreed. You want your child to have the very best start he/she can have, you want him/her to be the very best that you yourself can provide (in terms of genetic material.)

tl;dr: the movie is pretty vague about who the valids and invalids are, how readily accessible the technology for genetic manipulation is, and just what genetics can really decide for you in your life. From what I remember, however, it does seem pretty accessible to most people and yes, discrimination sucks, but it's happens no matter what/as long as differences still exist.