Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-09-17 03:16 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-09-17 03:16 pm
[ SECRET POST #1719 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
01.
__________________________________________________
02.
__________________________________________________
03.
__________________________________________________
04.
__________________________________________________
05.
__________________________________________________
06.
__________________________________________________
07.
__________________________________________________
08.
__________________________________________________
09.
__________________________________________________
10.
__________________________________________________
11.
__________________________________________________
12.
__________________________________________________
13.
__________________________________________________
14.
__________________________________________________
15.
__________________________________________________
16.
__________________________________________________
17.
__________________________________________________
18.
__________________________________________________
19.
__________________________________________________
20.
__________________________________________________
21. http://i52.tinypic.com/25gdrhe.png
[ link for porny ]
__________________________________________________
22.
__________________________________________________
23.
__________________________________________________
24.
__________________________________________________
25.
__________________________________________________
26.
__________________________________________________
27.
__________________________________________________
28.
__________________________________________________
29.
__________________________________________________
30.
__________________________________________________
31.
__________________________________________________
32.
__________________________________________________
33.
__________________________________________________
34.
__________________________________________________
35.
__________________________________________________
36.
__________________________________________________
37.
__________________________________________________
38.
__________________________________________________
39.
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 11 pages, 256 secrets from Secret Submission Post #246.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
Re: Same title, different post. 2/2
Regarding the Serebii fic awards, I don't think I was out of line at all. I do firmly believe that it's incredibly unfair to overlap submission time and voting time, because people are unlikely to change their votes. It's basic common sense and human nature--once people place a vote, they don't want to be bothered to change it. I don't think I "flipped out" or was offensive at all, and I believe a lot of the reaction to it was based on the fact that the person primarily behind that system had been banned from the site where I work (not by me and not for reasons to do with me, but he would troll the site chat and harass members elsewhere afterwards).
Wait wait...the underage thing--is that when I said I didn't get why people had to be 18 to be subjects of FW posts? And wow, the milk wank was hugely popular and that was when I was in good standing. It wasn't about me at all; I just reported it. I wasn't banned for a while yet, I think at least well over a year.
Anyway, I think there's just a lot of things going on. It's quite well known that I'm an Aspie, and I'm not alone in that especially in the Pokemon fandom (which I swear attracts Aspies like Suicune attracts Eusine), and thus one would think my infamy would be a boon at least in that regard, that people would know they were dealing with someone with a different mindset on things. And I still get accused of lying about it! They see it play out and I get the old "oh she's self-diagnosed" (one, no I'm not, and two, people who're self-diagnosed aren't automatically doing it to get attention and can base it in actual medicine). It's disgustingly dismissive, not just of me but of Aspies as a whole--look at it on here, every time the issue comes up, there's a flood of hatewank no matter how neutral the context is. Hell, people were accusing me of that one time when they didn't even know it was me. There was a secret about someone not wanting to get diagnosed because there was a wanker in fandom that they associated AS with...and nearly all the comments were expressing disgust that people self-diagnosed so much. Which had nothing to do with anything!
Some days I feel like I have a target painted on me. Only rarely is that target ever painted by me. Heck, you've seen my journal, as you mentioned. I talk a lot about how I don't understand this and that about the world, especially when it comes to society and its rules. It seems like the rules are "you do not talk about the rules" what with the reactions I get when I ask what it was people claim that I did wrong. And when they come back at me with accusations of not "wanting" to understand, or incredibly off-base claims of my thoughts on whatever issue, it just makes me think that there's no point in listening to these people anyway and I must be right by default because they're clearly wrong.
1/2
(Anonymous) 2011-09-20 08:29 pm (UTC)(link)To rewind, let me just outline what happened from the perspective of someone who's neurotypical (or The Great Butler, who's actually on the opposite end of the spectrum as you in terms of emotional responses). It started off civilly enough with you proposing a fairly calm question and a handful of people replying. Butler's response was a one-liner, but given the fact that Butler doesn't really say too much, it was meant to come off as a very simple statement. JX Valentine attempts to help at elaborating by doing what she does best: writing a fucking tl;dr post that can be summed up with the idea that nominations aren't set in stone and that the thread was going to be set up that early to get us to start thinking about who we would choose. Point is, neither post really contained any sort of vitriol. Butler's was straight to the point and neutral; Valentine's made no attempt to be snarky or defensive about the system and even said that your concerns were understandable and valid.
The problem started when you outright stated that Butler's system was "shoddy planning." It doesn't really help that you ended the post with capslock, which is usually taken online to mean that you're yelling, not emphasizing. (Note that a number of other people in the thread, such as bobandbill, took it to mean that your tone wasn't neutral.) Both of these cause your post to sound confrontational because you're saying that Butler doesn't know what he's doing and that, well, you're yelling at him. Whether or not you intended on sending that message is a moot point because there wasn't much of a reason for someone who doesn't think on the same wavelength as you to believe that you were speaking neutrally, while there was reason to believe that you thought Butler didn't know what he was doing.
Remember what I said earlier about Butler being on the opposite end of the emotional spectrum as you? Here's where things get trickier. Because he's on the opposite end, he has a tendency to pick up on things that can be interpreted as being confrontational, and given the fact that I'm a neurotypical (as far as I know) but saw your response as being confrontational, it really doesn't surprise me at all that Butler's answer was defensive. Because he felt you were attacking him. Things just escalated from there because you got increasingly defensive in your next post (more capslock, the travesty comment, implying that everyone doesn't know what they're doing by outright stating, "I cannot possibly be the only person who sees the massive problems with this system."), despite the fact that besides Butler, people were pretty much responding to you as civilly as possible and using reason to weigh your system against Butler's. The end result is people eventually gave up replying to the thread because it looked like you weren't addressing anyone calmly. Honestly, people were scared of you or just too tired to figure out how to phrase things politely.
But anyway, the main point that I'm getting at is that this is an example wherein what you're saying and what people get out of it aren't the same thing. People felt that you were being argumentative in that thread because of the words you chose and the conventions you used to deliver your message. If you had said something to the effect of, "Okay, I acknowledge your points, but if we did things this way, we'd get a better response," then I'm sure people wouldn't be as defensive towards you. In other words, most of your points focused on negativity. You were attacking the system in an overly blunt manner, and people felt that this implied that you thought you were the only reasonable one in the thread. If you wanted people to agree with you, the best course of action would have been to focus on a positive message to support your own system. As in, rather than state that the system Butler was proposing would have been a travesty and a mess, you should have stated that your system would give people more time to think about potential nominees. It's a slight difference, but responding positively and without the apparent vitriol would make people feel more comfortable with you.
2/2
(Anonymous) 2011-09-20 08:30 pm (UTC)(link)So, really, it had nothing to do with Butler's past on Bulbagarden. I know that Valentine still doesn't get what the wank was all about on either side, and she makes it a point to not give two shits about Bulba drama in the first place. bobandbill generally doesn't give two shits about drama at all, and he's usually the most diplomatic member on the board. Dragonfree doesn't give two shits about who's posting at all; she just likes voicing an incredibly blunt opinion whenever she sees an opportunity to do it. And really, Butler's past on a completely different board would have had just as much relevance as your past: none at all. Serebii members might be shitheads on every other forum, but the more sane members of the fanfiction forum (read: the people who posted in that thread) tend to be above doing things for petty reasons, so we really weren't thinking at all about that, just in the same way that no one was thinking about your past when they replied to you there.
Anyway, I'm also saying that communication is a tricky bastard that needs a good sense of empathy to pull off. And I know that non-neurotypicals can sometimes have problems with empathy, which is why I'm not really emphasizing that you learn how to be empathetic because I know that's probably out of the question. All I'm saying is that sometimes, if people seem like they're targeting you, it might actually be the other way around, so you'll want to be open to that possibility and be patient with the people who are discussing the downsides of your arguments.
Of course, I agree that not a lot of people are actually attempting civility (hello, many of the PDers in the bad_mods_suck thread), and I agree that it's rather shitfaced and hypocritical of those people to expect you to treat everyone else like people when the fuckheads won't do the same for you. Still, that doesn't mean everyone has ulterior motives or is targeting you, so if you don't understand something, try to think of ways to phrase "I don't get it" without sounding like you're attacking someone. The positive response versus the negative response I'd mentioned earlier, in other words. Of course, this strategy won't work on everyone, and to that, all I can say for advice is don't try to discuss anything with an SJ warrior because the attitude you described is pretty much exactly what can be expected of them, as ironic and hypocritical as that is.
Not even going to get into the rage I feel about the Aspie thing. I read that on your journal too, and I swear to God, that's going to need a completely different rant about how much I (ironically) hate people. I mean, I've seen you around fandom for forever, and I never got the vibe that you were just pretending to be an Aspie. I've seen a lot of dumbfucks try to claim they're autistic just to have an excuse to treat people like shit, so I know for certain that's not what you're doing. At all. And the people who are pulling that BS require a third rant, so I'm just going to quit while I'm not frothing at the fucking mouth.
Re: 2/2
I'm actually incredibly empathetic. But it's hard to convey through the internet. I feel a lot for other people, especially when my friends are going through hard times. But when people make no sense, that's a different matter altogether.
I've flat out said "I don't get it" and I get accused of all manner of shit, especially the whole "you're trying NOT to get it" bull that just smacks of other people either not wanting to explain or not being able to back up their own points. I mean hell, I'm in an arguement right now where someone is literally inserting a very important word that changes the entire meaning of their initial statement AFTER saying it. Not even as "this is what I meant to say" but claiming it was there all along and I clearly didn't read it if I got ANYTHING else but what they "said" (read: didn't say at all) out of it.
Oh by all means froth at the mouth. It may do some good if anyone happens to still be reading this.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-09-21 07:31 am (UTC)(link)Quick note (or some semblance thereof) about the opposite end, but basically, what I meant is that while you're both Aspie, sure, you handle things differently from him. While, yes, you're obviously a sensitive person, your first instinct seems to be to get cold. Looking at your posts, you say what's on your mind without even trying to sugarcoat it. In other words, you usually think or attempt to say things with a neutral tone, yes? That's like being Cyrus in that you're avoiding acting on emotion. Meanwhile, if you wrong Butler, meanwhile, he doesn't try to aim for neutrality; he actually flips and doesn't bother to mask his emotions. He will capslock at you if he's pissed, and he will ragequit or act without thinking things all the way through. In that sense, Butler acts on emotions, not rationality, so from his point of view, emotions are a big factor in an argument.
I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but I guess to continue on with the Cyrus analogy, it's like the difference between Cyrus and Special!Pryce. One of them tries to avoid acting on anger; the other flips out so much he
kidnaps small children to do his biddingdoesn't entirely think things through all the way. So, yeah, that's why it's tricky communicating with him: because not being extremely careful with what you say and how it comes off ends with him literally not listening to you for a while. I know that I've said things as diplomatically as possible with words I thought were pretty carefully chosen, and I still wound up setting him off, just because what I was saying came at the wrong time or because I was still too blunt. For most people, you just have to worry about being somewhere between you (Cyrusland) and Butler (Pryce on fire) in terms of checking yourself and making sure your words don't look like they have a negative tone attached to them, but because you were communicating with Butler, that just meant you would've had to go the extra mile and really read what you were saying a couple times over, basically. Otherwise, yeah, it's harder to get him to see your way.As for the not getting it part, I'm going to have to eventually suck it up and read the tl;dr threads because I get the feeling that's the majority of where that's happening. I'm just going by what I've observed on forums and so forth, so I'm guessing the meat of that issue is on threads I haven't read yet (besides PD because we're in agreement that that thread was a massive clusterfuck).
Frothing at the mouth. I'm so very tempted to do it, but I'm pretty sure what I wrote so far is already going to end up being split into two comments again. I don't want to know how many comments pages of rants would end up being. But it's definitely forthcoming because there are people I want to bitchslap. (Protip to the people who are about to cause the second of those two rants: Just because you're anywhere on the AS does not mean we'd be A-OK with you making blatantly sexist remarks like "it's biologically proven that males are better than females.") So I might write it on my sock account and link it here eventually instead. Or grow a pair and write it on my actual LJ account. Whichever I'm feeling like doing when it's not literally the middle of the night (and why I'm awake and on F!S is a mystery for the ages because I'm clearly not coherent).
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-09-21 07:32 am (UTC)(link)no subject
You know, comparing it to characters makes sense. One of the reasons I identify with Cyrus is that he clearly HAS emotions, and very strong ones, no matter how much he tries to present himself as neutral all the time, and I think that's how I come off to people, like they think I can't be rational no matter how much I try to present myself as such. Like no matter how much I try, I can't hide them.
Haha yeah, I tell ya, a lot of people on Bulbagarden try to get away with using AS as an out for shit behavior, but they don't realize that something like 50% of the mod staff has AS and doesn't tolerate bullshit. But fortunately, we don't assume that they're lying, just that they're being asshats. I think a lot of that is the age of most of the members. They think that it's a valid shield, and have to learn that we're not going to tolerate it being used as such.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-09-22 02:21 am (UTC)(link)Also, awesome that the comparison didn't fall flat. Honestly, if there's any fictional character I associate with you, it's Cyrus for the exact reason you brought up. I'm not sure if it's because I've seen a lot of your character on
You have a good point about it being age and how kids like that just need to learn that AS doesn't mean "free pass at being an asshat." I'm a bit leery, though, at the people who claim they're eighteen or older doing it, especially if they've been to other forums. Of course, they still might not be lying about being an Aspie or autistic on any other level, but still.
no subject
Yeah, the whole point is basically out of a really twisted altruism, like "you all have fucked it up, now stand aside, I won't let you fuck things up any more". And insofar as motivation, he talks a lot about strife, which I know is vague but gives the implication that he wants to end suffering (especially his bizarre pacifism that you mentioned. And no, that was one of the far more in-keeping-with-the-games moments. It's mostly the ending that made it wildly OOC, especially since "going off somewhere alone" is something he says pretty much word for word that he'll NEVER do in the games). There's also a lot of frustration, at a variety of things. His backstory, which we get in Pt, is pretty simple but it's easy to see how it could lead to where it did--he was a genius child but his parents were never pleased, so he retreated emotionally and took to machinery. Basically, logical things that could be rebuilt, and that he could control.
Then there's the non-canon-but-plausable idea that, since Sunyshore (his hometown) is based on a town that was almost wiped out in WW2, so depending on how close to the real world you want to think things are, he would have grown up with that having happened in his grandfather's time (and according to Pt, his grandfather seems to be the only person in his family who cared for him).
Blaaah I go on and on when prompted. I don't really have any war destruction in my history but I do have extreme pressure to succeed. Basically when I was young I had the grades to be in honors classes but no administration would let me because of my behavior issues, so I had to basically keep everything under wraps and remain beyond reproach (it...didn't exactly work, but I did manage to get into honors classes eventually). So to me, people were basically keeping me out of classes for no reason, because to me my reactions were entirely logical. As my reactions now are. People give me shit, I fight back. Do they expect me to sit there and take it? Did they ever?
Yargle I've blabbed so much.