fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1761 ]

[ SECRET POST #1761 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1761 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

__________________________________________________

14.

__________________________________________________

15. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

16.

__________________________________________________

17.

__________________________________________________

18.

__________________________________________________

19.

__________________________________________________

20.

__________________________________________________

21.

__________________________________________________

22.

__________________________________________________

23.

__________________________________________________

24.

__________________________________________________

25.

__________________________________________________

26.

__________________________________________________

27.

__________________________________________________

28.

__________________________________________________

29.

__________________________________________________

30.

__________________________________________________

31.

__________________________________________________

32.

__________________________________________________

33.

__________________________________________________

34.

__________________________________________________

35.

__________________________________________________

36.

__________________________________________________

37.

__________________________________________________

38. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

39. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

40.

__________________________________________________

41.

__________________________________________________

42. [ TRIGGER WARNING for abuse ]

__________________________________________________

43.

__________________________________________________

44.

__________________________________________________

45.

__________________________________________________

46.

__________________________________________________

47.

Notes:

Early because there's a snowstorm here, not sure if power will stay on. Better early than late!

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 300 secrets from Secret Submission Post #252.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 2 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Wait, before you come back with "omg didn't you know about leeches?", my point is that their use has been proven medically useful. And was hardly comparable with having your personality wiped then your body rented out for sex, against your will.

Leeches makes me a troll?

What? What? Can I just hit myself in the face now and save myself from your stupidity?

And as for your argument: Can you miss a point that deliberately or did you practice?

No, they just show you don't know what you're talking about.

Since you're either unable to grasp what the argument actually is, or you're just enjoying yourself trolling, I may as well say goodnight. I'm sure someone out there finds you very amusing!

Um, no, it just shows that you are leaving.

I really don't understand what your point was or what you had to say. That does not make me a troll, btw, that makes us people who do not understand each other.

Your willingness to call me a troll, however, speaks volumes. It means, to me, that you are unwilling to listen to another person's point of view. It means that you resort to petty insults. It means that you would rather call me a troll than have a discussion.

No, I'm not them and I thought you were a troll too, because you were being so dumbass.

You *obviously* don't understand what her point was. Why did you not try *reading what she wrote* and what other people wrote, and *thinking about it*? Flying off when you obviously had no clue as you now admit, of course that makes you look like a troll, or look very stupid. Assuming you're a troll rather than being stupid is almost a compliment in a way.

This is what cdaae wrote, with the context of her prior paragraph added into it for people who can't figure that out for themselves:

"Adele only thought that [Pria being made into a doll against her will] counted as rape when she realized Pria wasn't actually mentally ill. Sooo, she and Topher were just fine with rape when it comes to schizophrenics."

What is difficult to understand about that statement? It is not about what happened to *Sierra* It is about what happened to *Pria*

Please, anon, point out where I said I disagreed with that. Please, do.
I should very much like to see it.

I never said I agreed what happened to Pria. Not once. Perhaps you should react to the whole thread rather than that which you choose to read.

If you agreed with it, why did you leap on cdaae to say "what the fuck are you talking about?"

Why did you come out with drivel suggesting Adele might have been "mightily pissed off" even though she obviously, there in the show, was not?

cdaae said: "Thus, I find their moral outrage pretty meaningless." OPINION

"Those acts were not selfish but they were not remotely redemptive either. They don't make them good people." OPINION

"They're still people who are fine with the rape of people with severe mental illness." THEIR ATTITUDES AS PORTRAYED IN THE SHOW

You jump in with "what the fuck are you talking about" and telling her to "stop being offended on [your] behalf" like you're the only person with mental illness and she might not be speaking on her own behalf. Perhaps YOU should read the whole thread, little Anon.

I'm literally holding my head in my hands. I didn't realise that disagreeing with someone over a TELEVISION SHOW made me this cretin -- as long as I don't agree with your opinion about it.

I didn't realise that not understanding, disagreeing, would make me worthy of being condemned.

And seriously, it really is possible to agree with things and disagree with similar or related things. Life isn't all black and white, and if you are the anon from above who said "why not" well, I don't even want to be part of your world where everything is so defined.

Life is many colours and many shapes and many everything. my wanting to understand another of those shapes or ways of life, it does not make me a troll. It makes me a person who is curious about other ways of thinking, even if I don't understand them.

You are bound to offend people when you are sounding like a rape apologist, whether its what you mean to sound like or not.

If Adele and Topher wanted to help Priya, were kindly doctors, they could wipe Priya's personality, which would be ethically dubious might they might do for what they genuinely thought were good reasons, and..... not let people use her for sex! Knowing she hasn't consented, they could..... not send her out to get raped!

That is why your argument is stupid, you see?

Exactly Anon, exactly. Wow.

You say: "Leeches makes me a troll?"

She says: "No, they just show you don't know what you're talking about."

You say: "Um, no, it just shows that you are leaving."

What. You are not making sense. You are not doing a lot to support your claim to understand what logic is, either.

Willingly misreading things much?

My point was that people used to do things that were medically crap. Leeches aside, although I thought it was maggots that have since proved medically useful, nevertheless. People in olden times used to do things that were not good. That was my point.

And the whole point was that what people think of now as medically useful or otherwise, perhaps it won't be in a few years. Perhaps it will be like we think of drilling holes in people's heads to rid them of demons. There is no knowing.

I was trying to relate that point to those doctors who thought they were helping people by drilling holes in their heads. They really thought they were helping. They were not bad people. They wanted to help but did not understand that what they were doing was actually hurting. That was my point.

There, I have explained it now.

Leeches and maggots are both used in modern medicine.

I understood what you were attempting to say, although it was not very relevant to what cdaae was saying. I... can't even be bothered to explain what I was pointing out to you, since you don't get it. Never mind.

I don't know how many times you need it explaining. "They wanted to help but did not understand that what they were doing was actually hurting"... But Adele obviously did know that rape is bad and hurts, as you pointed out. She doesn't think it is something that "helps." She is angry about someone being used against their will as a doll - except when she thinks that person is schizophrenic. She didn't think of it as rape when she thought it was happening to someone who was seriously mentally ill. That is the point.

If you think what Adele and Topher did doesn't make it reasonable for someone to believe they are bad people, you presumably don't think it would be reasonable to call a doctor found to be performing lobotomies on mental patients a bad person either, so long as he "thought he was helping." Beause that's what your logic says.

Sorry, but what you were saying, really wasn't the same as what I was saying.

What I was saying was that perhaps (and I realise I'm speculating wildly) Topher thought he was helping. Like those doctors who used to drill holes in people's heads.

They thought they were helping. They never were, but they thought they were, and for hundreds of years everyone else thought they were.

The doctors who performed lobotomies, they thought they were doing good. They thought they were helping. Ignorance cannot be construed as misdeed, and the desire to help, to do good for people, to help them, cannot be judged as bad if you have only the knowledge of that time.

If you gave the knowledge we have now to someone who used to drill holes to release demons, and they understood it but continued to drill holes, that is bad, but ignorance, the not knowing, itself, that is not bad.

That is what my logic says, because that is what is true. Not understanding something is not bad. Doing something contrary to that which you understand is bad.

Kind of got away from the point there.

Here is where you are being a cretin.

If they wanted to cure Priya, if that was their motivation -- they could have made her a doll and NOT RENTED HER OUT FOR SEX WITH PEOPLE.

How do you think that added to the cure? Seriously, how was the sex part necessary?

She didn't consent to it. It was rape. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

Yes! MTE! And I'd have thought, OBVIOUSLY.

Are you saying that Adele and Topher thought being raped would help Priya?

I assume not! So what is this helping her you're talking about? Why did selling her body need to be part of the "cure" they were offering?

It wasn't. They were letting her get raped. There's nothing to suggest the being sold for sex was part of what would cure her so your argument is unsupported, and that's also probably why some people thought you were trolling, because seriously now, it was stupid.

Late to the party, I know (sorry), but as I haven't actually watched the show I have a question. From what I can gather, people who are schizophrenic agree to become a Doll in order to be cured. In theory, they have their personalities wiped, receive whatever treatment, and then in five years' time they are cured, and fully-functioning members of society, is that correct?

So please, to clarify: was having sex with the dolls considered part of the treatment? These were doctors doing it, right, under carefully monitored conditions as part of the treatment, and not just some random guys off the street paying to be permitted to have their way with the dolls? Or was that "random guy off the street" (if that was how it happened) being used as part of the cure (somehow), again, under carefully monitored conditions and the supervision of doctors?

The doll in question obviously didn't want sex to occur, as she struggled against it; just as obviously if that was not considered to be unusual behaviour then the other dolls must also struggle against the sex as a matter of course. Just as obviously, their protests are also, as a matter of course, ignored. And when someone in any condition struggles against sex occurring, even if they aren't able to verbally express their lack of consent, I think that legally and morally one can take their withholding of consent to be explicit. And that would make having sex with them rape.

Now, as I understand your argument, the doctors are allowing intercourse to take place as an explicit method of treatment, under the properly supervised etc etc. And if the dolls are harmed by it, it's not because the doctors are immoral people (and horrible excuses for human beings) who are whoring out their helpless patients to make a buck because, hell, it's not like they can object or anything, right? Instead, it's because the doctors are honestly doing their best to cure a difficult condition, and this is one method of doing so, the same as forcing a phobic person to face their fears under controlled conditions in order to help them to overcome them isn't the same as torturing or abusing someone with extreme phobias by deliberately exposing them to their triggers for entertainment or profit. Sure, the actual actions may arguably be more or less the same, but the reason and intention behind exposing them to their fears are diametrically opposed.

But if, in this case, forcing intercourse upon the dolls was a method of treatment and not someone taking advantage of a helpless patient in their care, then why did the doctor order the rapist killed when she found out that the doll in question wasn't actually schizophrenic, but simply involuntarily drugged so she would present similar symptoms? Because that isn't the reaction of a doctor going "OMG we accidentally gave a patient the wrong treatment!" it's the reaction of someone going "OMG That means that this was actually rape!"

So then the question becomes, "If it's rape when she's just drugged, then why isn't it rape UNDER THE EXACT SAME CONDITIONS whith the others?" And the only visible answer seems to be that that one single factor in difference, the doll's medical condition, is what is making the difference.

And that INEXORABLY means that it's somehow ISN'T rape (or doesn't matter) if, and ONLY if, the patient is schizophrenic. Which is pretty goddamned dehumanizing, don't you think?

So this really doesn't seem to be a case of "Well, but we simply didn't know that treating morning sickness with Thalidomide would end up being a really bad idea!" They are obviously well aware that rape is wrong (or the rapist wouldn't have been killed), so you tell me: How does rape figure into the treatment? How does them having mental illnesses make BEING RAPED okay?

Honestly curious about that one.

1. At least 4 identifiably different people have a) understood what she was saying and b) agreed with it.

2. You say you don't understand what the point you were replying to was in the first place, but not understanding didn't stop you slinging insults. You claim you wanted a discussion but you can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand the point they claim they are interested in discussing!

3. Your language choices have made you sound like a troll... "Take ownership of it" "Have rather a one track mind here, don't you?" "You own issue, perhaps," all sounds very calculated to wind someone up and try to make them explode.

She being who, and identifiably different being what?

Not a point I would have made or even considered, though now I am, and wondering how "different" they were.

You brought it up.

I never said I didn't understand the point. I said that the anon I replied to (in this case not) did not. And I never slung insults.

Saying explicitly that I thought someone else's personal problems with an issue like this, and citing example, does not make me a troll. Try again.

I didn't say you were a troll. I am merely open to the possibility that you were trolling, because this is, after all, fandomsecrets. It is also not a "petty insult" since considering that you may be a very clever troll is crediting you with possibly being enormously more intelligent than you are if you're serious. That latter part is the insult, not imagining you might be a troll.

I really don't understand what your point was or what you had to say.

Hilariously, in another comment below you claim you never said you didn't understand, and challenge someone to point to where you said it. Here. Here is where you said it.

Maybe if you wanted to be taken seriously, you should have made more effort to conduct a discussion that would enable you to understand what the point under discussion even is. Then perhaps you wouldn't have flown off the handle because of your own issues to do with wanting to be cured and to be normal, which have nothing to do with the ways Adele and Topher regarded and treated Priya.

If you are still too fucking idiotic to get the point, here are a few selected examples of people explaining it to you.

http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/781758.html?thread=493593022#t493593022

http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/781758.html?thread=493590974#t493590974

http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/781758.html?thread=493599422#t493599422

http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/781758.html?thread=493597630#t493597630

Also trepanning is still a legitimate medical procedure to releave the pressure from bleeding near the brain. It's just that nowadays they use anesthetic.

So yeah, "leeches and drilling holes in people's heads" is all perfectly legitimate. Perhaps Anon doesn't know that? Somehow?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1761 ]

Re: 0/10

Re: 0/10

Re: 0/10

Re: 0/10

Re: 0/10

Re: 0/10

no subject

no subject

LET ME EXPLAIN AGAIN

Re: LET ME EXPLAIN AGAIN

???....????

Re: ???....????

Re: ???....????

Re: ???....????

What you don't seem to grasp is.......

Re: What you don't seem to grasp is.......

Re: ???....????

Re: ???....????

no subject

no subject

oh ffs

Re: 0/10