Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-12-25 03:24 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-12-25 03:24 pm
[ SECRET POST #1818 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 135 secrets from Secret Submission Post #260.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
New Year's Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
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If anyone bothered to read "A Scandal in Bohemia" anyway, the relationship between Holmes and Adler was based on intellectual flirtation and mutual respect and admiration. It really wasn't all that sexual, so step off my girl, she's not ruining your precious ship~*~
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(Anonymous) 2011-12-25 09:06 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
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(Anonymous) 2011-12-26 09:23 am (UTC)(link)no subject
I'm hoping that's how it'll play out in the BBC version, because that's more or less how I see it in the canon version (given what Victorian serial mysteries permitted through nuanced language.)
And yes, for the record, I'm a purist, and see Sherlock as asexual, so I have no *serious* qualms with John/Sherlock other than the fact that I think it's a little... predictable by now. That's not where my complaint is coming from, in other words.
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Really? Not sure where in SCAN that can be argued from, to be honest. She interacts with him only when he is in disguise and in a very unsexual way - a working class witness at her wedding, then as an elderly, injured clergyman. She clearly relishes getting the better of him intellectually, but I don't see any more than that going on.
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That was how I read it at age 8, and that's the way it's going to stay in my headcanon. I don't know if she ever closed the door on the possibility of something with Holmes, since she had been investigating his methods long before the King sought his services. So look, I don't ship them, I don't ship anyone with Holmes, but all of this is up to interpretation I suppose. Obviously there were constraints on writing more sexually-charged scenes between the two of them in Victorian serials, so some of us just have to settle for Holmes taking his photo of Irene as the equivalent as some sort of *stirring*, if we choose to interpret it that way.
Anyway I've had enough of this argument. In a nutshell: In Victorian times, and even now, given our relatively low status in society, I think it's not beyond the realm of possibility that "relish[ing] getting the better of [Holmes] intellectually" is, for a woman, a turn-on.
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I agree in that, if we're talking about the original cannon then yes, Adler is more kick-ass-lady-person than "home-wrecker" for so many reasons. But, on the other hand, so many adaptations (especially modern ones which, due to modern sensibilities, tend to over-sex everything) put Adler in the role of not simply a criminal rival, but rather a sexual or romantic encounter of Holmes, especially in terms of a more long term thing.
I guess my apprehension is that they're gonna de-queer holmes as is generally the tendency in mainstream adaptations (queer, not gay in particular, just not-running-the-straight-and-narrow in any regards). It's not about ships really. Its just a fucking blessing to have mainstream shows that aren't strictly about being queer to feature main characters and protagonists who don't fit into the standard straight-male-masculine-hegemony bullshit.
On one hand I know this fear is ludicrous. NTM a lot of people who hate on Irene specifically cite much less uh I mean they have bullshit reasons and end up seeming like women haters more than anything. As a fan of the books and the show, it definitely isn't that I dislike Adler, especially the original Adler. it's the fear of the alteration of the story into a "don't worry about all that queerness, holmes is definitely STRAIGHT and it's OK to like him, hegemony!" .... which nearly always happens to protagonists that wouldn't actually fit in.
In another defense, it would be awesome to see Adler just as a Badass Person of the Female Sex being a general BAMF who isn't degraded/excused into existence by the fact that she is a romantic object/lead in the story . A female character that isn't a love-interest, object/macguffin or a family figure? impossible!!!!
ps: I'm sorry to leave this monster of a comment under yours just because it's a picture of Patrick McGoohan. I'm sorry. It just had to happen.
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Almost every other adaptation I can think of -- most notably, the unparallelled Granada series -- hasn't de-queered Holmes for the sake of Irene Adler.
I understand your fear that they're going to make Sherlock into, idk, some version of the Tenth Doctor who falls in love with Rose Tyler/Irene Adler and omg interdimensional non-platonic WHAT THE FUCK GET OUT OF MY SHOW. But there have been absolutely no hints of that happening, and it would be appalling writing (imo, the writing on "Sherlock" already is appalling and an insult to Conan Doyle's character -- "high functioning sociopath"?? Gag me with a meat grinder) to stop character continuity like that.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I totally love slamming this show. It's like the BBC was scrambling so hard to find a goldmine that FOX found with "House" that they decided to mangle the original original source material because apparently it's really hip to like smart assholes lately because people want to relate to them. (Marketing research!) Sherlock Holmes is not a smart asshole (well, he is, but also no -- he wants to help people, not fund some cute NCIS hobby he has.) For good television, watch Jeremy Brett's flawless performance (which obviously informed RDJ's performance, to my surprise and delight) in the BBC Granada series from the '90s or so. They should be on Netflix.
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Ah, fair enough, I'll lay off the "many adaptations"- mostly thinking about the past ten years or rather, the downey jr. one and the more distant (and distinct, don't chase me down for this) stuff like House. So I apologize and will be checking those things out. But to be fair, in the current media climate, she's definately being coined as the "love interest".
As I stated, the fear IS ludicrous, any logical look at the show insofar- the episodes, the track history of the writers (well, kind of) seems to push strongly in the "not fuck it up" direction. But it's the run up to the next season in about two weeks and most of these fans are like, only exposed to the new adaptation and the movies (which DO give holmes romantic female leads). So any crazy fears ("what's the reichenbach falls?" , "who is Irene Adler?" are kind of at fever pitch. It's just miserly fandom.
I mean, that's the whole point though- it WOULD be terrible writing, but they could easily sweep it under the carpet with "modern adaptation"- where as a series more close to the original has to stay that way, or can defend itself as a period piece "not queer, reserved". There's also several clips featuring her which are clearly designed to bait the viewer that have come out, so if the whining has gotten louder, it's probably that (people who are naked in trailers: Adler, Holmes).
I actually like the show, so I guess it's one of those "yes, I'm emotionally attached to this thing! No, I know it's crazy!" situations .... but the characters aren't really lock-step with the original cannon, to be sure. I mean, I enjoy the writing over all (not that line at all haha, but moreso the story-telling). Half the excitement is "how are they going to adapt this story?" I agree that a true-to-cannon portrayal of Holmes is pretty far away from the new series, but for me it's an interesting take on the character/situation, given a much more flawed protagonist than the cannon has. I mean and that's up in the air- its hard to tell if they're treating his personality issues as a serious point or if we're supposed to just go along with it as a "charming quirk", especially in fandom which just distorts it all further into wish fulfillment hell.
But thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely check it out! That sounds really fantastic actually. Also, happy boxing day/chanukah/kwanzaa/etc. Once again, sorry for the long winded reply, this stuff is interesting to me for some reason. orz