[ SECRET POST #1818 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1818 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 135 secrets from Secret Submission Post #260.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
New Year's Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

13. http://i.imgur.com/uLufg.png

[tamburlaine.livejournal.com]

Holy fuck I AGREE.

If anyone bothered to read "A Scandal in Bohemia" anyway, the relationship between Holmes and Adler was based on intellectual flirtation and mutual respect and admiration. It really wasn't all that sexual, so step off my girl, she's not ruining your precious ship~*~

[mutantjules.livejournal.com]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexactly. :D

[09019.livejournal.com]

PRISONER ICON FOR THE WIN CAN I JUST SAY.


I agree in that, if we're talking about the original cannon then yes, Adler is more kick-ass-lady-person than "home-wrecker" for so many reasons. But, on the other hand, so many adaptations (especially modern ones which, due to modern sensibilities, tend to over-sex everything) put Adler in the role of not simply a criminal rival, but rather a sexual or romantic encounter of Holmes, especially in terms of a more long term thing.

I guess my apprehension is that they're gonna de-queer holmes as is generally the tendency in mainstream adaptations (queer, not gay in particular, just not-running-the-straight-and-narrow in any regards). It's not about ships really. Its just a fucking blessing to have mainstream shows that aren't strictly about being queer to feature main characters and protagonists who don't fit into the standard straight-male-masculine-hegemony bullshit.

On one hand I know this fear is ludicrous. NTM a lot of people who hate on Irene specifically cite much less uh I mean they have bullshit reasons and end up seeming like women haters more than anything. As a fan of the books and the show, it definitely isn't that I dislike Adler, especially the original Adler. it's the fear of the alteration of the story into a "don't worry about all that queerness, holmes is definitely STRAIGHT and it's OK to like him, hegemony!" .... which nearly always happens to protagonists that wouldn't actually fit in.

In another defense, it would be awesome to see Adler just as a Badass Person of the Female Sex being a general BAMF who isn't degraded/excused into existence by the fact that she is a romantic object/lead in the story . A female character that isn't a love-interest, object/macguffin or a family figure? impossible!!!!

ps: I'm sorry to leave this monster of a comment under yours just because it's a picture of Patrick McGoohan. I'm sorry. It just had to happen.

[foxhound.livejournal.com]

As a John/Sherlock shipper, I SO FUCKING AGREE.

Tbh, my Tumblr has seemed to be an Irene Adler appreciation blog lately. I actually liked Sherlock fandom up until this whole Irene thing.

[flowrs4ophelia.livejournal.com]

THIS. Even in the Ritchie fandom the Irene hate annoyed me, but at least in the BBC show we have no reason to suspect that they're going way off from canon with her.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Well, she's a dominatrix instead of an actress, for one.

And I guess you haven't seen the clip with her naked (or at least topless) and coming on to Sherlock?

Hell, forget "ruining my ship", I'm pissed off that this is how they chose to introduce her (the "topless" scene was in the first trailer that actually showed her). She's supposed to be smart and probably powerful... and they introduce her showing her damn tits.

[nicotinecloud.livejournal.com]

Agreed so hard.
The fandom actually makes me feel like that about a lot of my slash ships.

[beck-rocks.livejournal.com]

FOR REAL, they can get so bloody stupid about it.

i personally cannot wait for the new series and seeing adler in action! ONE WEEK.

[puutarhalapio.livejournal.com]

Oh yes I thought about it too! I'm a Sherlock/John shipper but I have nothing against Irene, haven't read the book (will do so, though) and disliked her a little in the movie(2009), but BBC version is totally different and I think so far she looks great.

I hope Irene will be an awesome character, though it might not matter to those who think she's going to ruin their John/Sherlock. I don't understand woman character hate at all, especially when they are in a (usually non-canon) slash/yaoi pairing's way.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

especially when they are in a (usually non-canon) slash/yaoi pairing's way.

Don't turn this into a slash/yaoi thing. I've seen plenty of hate for characters in a straight couple's way, too.
/icon very much related

[hikari87.livejournal.com]

Dunno anything about the fandom for that series, but ia that people who would hate on Irene, especially for that reason, probably have no clue what Doyle' canon for her is, namely, that she was the woman Holmes RESPECTED more than any other as an intellectual equal, and that neither had a romantic interest in each other. If the show implies differently, that's still no reason to hate on her.

[cloud-riven.livejournal.com]

Yes. I don't know whether to be frustrated that people are jumping to extremely early conclusions, or that most of the vitriol reads less as disagreeing with how Irene's character will be interpreted, and more like an insecure "the Vagina's getting in the way of my slashing!"

I'm avoiding the fandom (outside of checking delicious/pinboard) right now, especially the tumblr portion, because I don't have a lot of patience for shipping wank, or misogynist dumbassery.

[(Anonymous)]

Attention: this may be spoilery if you haven't seen the clips/trailer.

Agreed, OP.

Of course, some people are genuinely afraid that Irene will be sexually objectified — which is possible, of course, though I hope not, and frankly, I don't really think so. Moffat and Gatiss have both clearly stated that they meant to present Irene and Sherlock's relationship as a mental battle between two highly intelligent people — they described them as eerily similar to each other when it comes to intelligence, which, considering the show's emphasis on Sherlock's intellect, is a great deal indeed. Irene may be a sexual person, but I doubt they'll downplay her capacity to be smarter than Sherlock.

But apparently a lot of people are hating on Irene or calling her a 'slut' because we see her naked back — and it's highly disturbing that these people were also the ones cheering the loudest when that bedsheet slipped off Sherlock's naked arse. Double standards much?

To be honest, I really, really hope that Irene's nakedness in that scene is meant to emphasize Sherlock's utter indifference to sex — he does look completely nonplussed at having this gorgeous woman sitting naked on his lap. I also hope that the fact that Irene is a Dominatrix means she sees sex as something to be used, something that's part of her job, something she can control, instead of something she's subjected to. That would make her relationship with Sherlock all the more interesting to me, if that apparent seduction scene was in fact stripped of sexual attraction between them.

In the original stories, Adler was someone who had affairs with men of high standards (such as the King of Bohemia, whom she blackmailed with the proof of that affair). She was meant to be portrayed as a adventuress, someone who didn't fit the respectable morals of Victorian society. Updating this to the 21st century means taking this up to another level. Moffat may have failled in doing so, but we won't know until we see the episode.

I also agree on the fact that people calling out Irene because they're afraid of her getting in the way of their ships (it doesn't even have to be S/J, I've seen a Sherlock/Lestrade fan rant off on her) clearly indicates that they haven't read the story. There was no canonical romantic relationship between Holmes and Adler in SCAN. The story is open to interpretation, of course, but you can also read the entire complete works with the interpretation that Holmes and Watson were boning, and that doesn't (sadly, in my little shipper heart) make it canon.

It has been hammered in the public consciousness that Irene is Holmes' love interest, because of course people expect love interests, and she's perfect for the role (except, you know, she went off and got married, which a lot of people often forget) but Moffat and Gatiss have stated very clearly that they are trying to work as closely as possibly to the canon characterizations and relationships. I honestly wouldn't worry about Sherlock/Irene being made canon. There will probably be some subtext, but then there's a fuckton of Sherlock/John subtext, and that doesn't make them canon either.

Holy shit, this got long. tl;dr: we can't know until we see the episode, I hope Irene is someone who uses sex rather than is used by it, and the way she's treated by a small subsection of the fandom is utterly disgusting. (Thankfully, I'm in a part of fandom in which people are either drooling over how gorgeous she looks or gleefully speculating over the many ways in which she can beat Sherlock at his own game. Usually both.)

[goobbledigook.livejournal.com]

Hm. What's wrong with not reading the damn book and liking the show because of slash and bloody pRons? Is that not allowed? are you gonna call the interest police?

[miss-makiba.livejournal.com]

Wow, she's pretty! Is she playing Irene Adler? /clearly focuses on the important part of the secret

[(Anonymous)]

See, I don't understand people hating on Irene for invalidating their Sherlock ships; I mean, in my mind, it does the exact opposite.

If Sherlock is romantically interested in Irene, the "married to his work" thing comes up, and Sherlock would choose his work first. Worst case scenario, Irene pops in and out of their lives much like Sarah does, and fandom is pretty good about accepting/ignoring Sarah when they want to.

If Sherlock isn't romantically interested in Irene, you've lost nothing, and fandom keeps on swimming for all interpretations.

If Sherlock is sexually attracted to Irene, that means he feels sexual attraction, and fandom usually goes the all sexuals are bisexuals route anyway, so no problems there. Then, Sherlock could have said "no relationships" to John in the first episode for any of the normal fanon reasons, reasons which are not going to disappear if he likes Irene. Plus, how many times will Sherlock's work require a dominatrix? She's probably a very minor character, so the presence of any sexual attraction on Sherlock's part can really only strengthen whatever your ship is.

If Sherlock isn't sexually attracted to Irene, you've lost nothing, and fandom keeps on swimming for all interpretations.

In short: Leave Irene alone, she's really not bothering anyone. Personally, I'm just hoping to get some one-uping Sherlock snark out of her character, and then I will be content.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Big fandom, lots of idiots. Kind of inevitable. And poor Irene has been jammed into awkward places in more pastiches and film adaptations than you can shake a stick at, so she's an easy target.

Me, I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with the story. I did kind of raise my eyebrows at some of the notions presented in the clips/trailers we've seen but that's at the scriptwriter's not Irene, and I'm waiting to see what happens.

I am, btw, one of the folks who liked movie Irene, and still didn't mind what happened in SH:AGoS (pronounced "Shag Us") because it set up Moriarty as a very scary person indeed.

[(Anonymous)]

And I'm suddenly glad I pay absolutely no attention to tumblr - sounds like this is where anti-Irene shit is going down.

I ship John/Sherlock but I loathe it when the women get ripped apart, whether it's Irene, Sarah or Mary. I like Sarah, I like Mary in the movieverse, and I wait and see about BBC Irene. (I'm not going to knee-jerk into declaring my love for Irene without seeing her, just because some people are being douchey about her. No character gets my love or hate without watching first.)

Although I am sort of expecting some Moffat Fail when it comes to Irene, if I'm honest. The dude can't seem to write women characters in any show without having them revolve around sex in some way. And it generally comes off as a bit skeevy to me. I tend to love his plots, but writing characters... UGH.

[velvet-mace.livejournal.com]

Meh, you know I'm a Sherlock/John shipper, too, but you know what, I'm not even the tiniest bit threatened by Irene. I'm looking forward to seeing her. I just don't get why people have to be so hung up on canon (or in this case maybe potentially canon) ships getting in the way of whatever the hell we want. It's not like the characters only get to fuck once, or even be attracted to only one person. John (three contenents) Watson is hardly the blushing One True Love virgin.

Shippers need to have a bit of trust that their ship can survive one freaking story with competition.

[gabzillaz.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna be in my corner shipping this, I don't give a fuck.

[heretherebefic.livejournal.com]

I have no issue with canon!Irene or her relationship with Holmes.

I do have a problem with adaptations that turn her into a boring, sappy love interest.

But I'm pretty sure Gatiss and Moffat are more than good enough to write the Holmes/Adler rivalry/relationship fairly well.

[sister-wife.livejournal.com]

this is all especially hilarious/sad since this particular irene is gay. (http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2011-12-08/review-sherlock---a-scandal-in-belgravia)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I've read canon, and I don't see where you get Sherlock/Irene. She was an opportunist who figured out how to ditch Holmes because he underestimated her based on her gender, and he was annoyed, surprised, and impressed by her actions. Pretty simple.

Now it's fine if you 'ship S/I for funsies, or even if you 'ship Sherlock/John. It's only when you drag canon into it to try to prove S/I is more "valid" than S/J, that I raise an eyebrow.

Bonus: It's "downright," not "down right."