Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-01-08 04:11 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-01-08 04:11 pm
[ SECRET POST #1832 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 139 secrets from Secret Submission Post #262.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
no subject
most people don't take nicely to criticism. maybe you're special or whatever but i'm pretty sure deep down it sucks to hear somebody correct you for something being overlooked. some people are polite enough to handle it maturely, and other people aren't. what sucks is you don't know who's bad and who's good until you actually poke them with that big bad stick.
so like, don't pick up the stick in the first place
but i guess that's really a moot point since you've already done it
so i wish you the best of luck anon and i hope those nasty popular people stop
no subject
no subject
I mean, honestly, if I'm unsure about an author-- how they'll handle concrit-- I will go easier on them, point out small things. I might mention bigger things in passing, but I won't go all out beta-reader on them in a review/comment. It's just not worth the risk of possibly provoking someone.
Not that it's not wrong that people get so prickly over constructive criticism, because honestly, people don't spend 30 minutes critiquing your story just to try and hurt you (and if they are, it's called a flame, not concrit), and people should stop to consider that. But some people's feelings are hurt more easily than others, and some people are (GASP) not writing fanfiction as a way of becoming a better writer/perfecting a craft.
To compare: I draw on occasion, but I'm reaaaaalllllllly not interested in detailed artistic criticism. It's a really silly hobby and I don't indulge in it often; I'm a horrible artist and I know this. Hearing that my anatomy is off is probably going to just make me see red--because I already know.
But with writing, I'm always happy to see what works and what doesn't, what meanings I've made clear and which I haven't.
Criticism sucks, yes-- who actually WANTS to be told that there is something wrong-- or several something-- with the story or art they have worked so tirelessly to finish? I usually hang back a teeny bit on authors and wait to see what kind of a person they are before I leave any real criticism. I don't want to scare a new first-attempt author away from writing forever, because I remember how things were when I first decided to write a 'fic. People mature as writers as the years pass, and it can be hard to tell where someone is on the general spectrum without hanging around to see, first.
Not saying you shouldn't critique, OP, but like the above person said, if you're unsure, it might be better to just leave it be. Mostly for your own sanity. You wouldn't stop someone on the street to tell them their shirt was ugly or didn't match their trainers, would you? And it's out in the public for all to see just like fanfiction/fanart is. But if someone beside you said, "Does my shirt match? What do you think?" you would be able to answer politely but honestly if you felt like it, without much fear of retribution.
((Though I'll be the first to say I've seen a lot of authors say they want "concrit" but what they really mean is "asspats". Those people make me angrier than most-- don't SAY you want concrit if you really just want positive feedback.))
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-01-09 12:36 am (UTC)(link)That's what I think makes a fandom newbie such an aggravation to BNFs: they think they're the best that fandom has to offer and you, o lowly one, can't possibly be correct in correcting them.
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-09 12:56 am (UTC)(link)It's audacious to point out something the author may have missed? Chances are they're trying to help you, not one-up you. You sound like kind of an elitist dick.
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-09 02:49 am (UTC)(link)no subject
To not 'pick up the stick' is to not think critically of what you are reading, which (in my opinion) is never good. Also, your metaphor is implying that well-meant crit is like poking someone with a stick. No, a insult is like poking someone with a stick.
Admittedly, as someone who is trying to become a professional author, I find it horrifying how many people hate criticism. You will never get better as a writer if you do not receive it, and once more, by hating it and calling the person names you are acting cruelly for your own failings.
It's like if someone was walking around with lettuce stuck in their teeth, or their fly undone. It's embarrassing when people see it, but if you have any sense you would be glad if a person points it out so that you can correct it. If you can get over that moment of 'OMG SO EMBARRASSING', you can fix it and move on and be grateful.
My biggest problem is that the train of thought you presented not only blames someone for being well-meaning, or at least free-thinking, but excuses those who act like brats when faced with something that is common to daily life, like water to writers, and is inevitable on the internet. You post something, you should be aware and prepared for it if someone criticizes your work. End of story.
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a lot of people aren't able to get over the 'OMG SO EMBARRASSING' moment
i dunno i'm just a really passive person when it comes to dealing with problems, in general. let me go off on a tangent and say that some of this probably stems from my family values. i grew up in a social setting that prized conformity and condemned most forms of critical thought. you weren't supposed to correct your teachers in class, all that jazz. makes you sound like an ungrateful smart aleck, you know?
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if that made any sense
idk i come off as pretty confusing most of the time
no subject
And don't get me wrong. I believe firmly in the Praise-Crit-Praise approach. You don't go in and crit people without telling them what you liked about their work. If you don't have anything nice to say, it's better not to say anything at all and all that jazz. (Plus, if it's really so horribly bad that there isn't anything nice you can say, most likely they aren't mature enough to handle crit as they don't seem to be mature enough to really think through a story, so it's a waste to say anything in that case. At that point anything you say will cause drama.)
Not to mention if a person says they are doing it just for fun, then yeah, person should shut up and hold their peace. Or if it's a gift. Criticizing a gift is a no-no unless they ask for it.
And I did grow up in a house that encouraged free thinking and asking questions, but I don't think it is wrong to be passive (in most cases). I just think it's not quite right to criticize someone for not being passive, or to criticize someone for being passive (once again, in most cases). Now, being mean? Hell yeah, criticize the hell outta that.
Now, whether or not it is smart to criticize in different circumstances is a whole other ball of wax, so I am certainly not debating that the OP was smart in that instance to crit a BNF. But that is a whole different issue entirely. ;)
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-01-09 12:43 am (UTC)(link)Of course, there are also the bullheaded people who make mistakes and then refuse to accept concrit as truth. No, Angela Merkel is not the president of Germany and Deng Xiaoping was not alive in 1820, you idiot, you want to say and then you contemplate throttling them through the Internet.
no subject
Hell, my own professor in my creative lit course was horribly wrong on one of her points toward me! Even if every other person in that room hadn't agreed with me I would have known she was wrong simply because I knew my story. Sometimes the corrector is just coming from a completely different place so they can't see it clearly whether because they prefer something very different or have a opposing worldview.
And heck, sometimes people correcting stuff can be horribly ignorant and even offensive! ('No women could ever like football lol', for one specific instance that still makes me roll my eyes. Especially since in this case it was canon. )
And yes, those people who can't except that they are wrong about blatant facts are horrifyingly annoying as well. I tend to block anyone I see acting like a dick to simple corrections (when phrased nicely) because I like my fandom to be a happy place. :D
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-01-08 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)"Don't speak your opinion because people might take offense to it."
In that case, you may as well not participate in anything at all, because people might take offense to your very presence. People do shit like that.
no subject
i guess i should have specified the grounds upon which concrit isn't necessary
for me, fanfic is one of them
bc a lot of fic writers have this complex
i mean
generally speaking, people will take offense to anything
(for example, people may be offended by your attempt at not trying to offend them)
so i guess what i'm saying is yes!!! i am for free speech
god bless america and all that
no subject
You might think a strangers outfit looks bad, but it's not cowardly to keep that you yourself.
no subject
Also, your strangers clothing outfit is a bad analogy. Writing fic is more like being a socialite going to a club like Paris Hilton, then her choice of fashion is up for public scrutiny and criticism (good or bad) because she's putting herself out there as a fashion diva.
Finally, if a person doesn't want feedback, all they have to do is turn off that option. They will still be talked about if they write something that is really good or really really really, bad, but it won't be in their metaphorical backyard.
Finally - most fic that gets posted is mediocre, nobody cares enough to comment at all. Hell most people don't even comment if they like the fic. If you get long concrit (exception being if your fic is offensive) then it's a compliment because your fic stood out enough from the samey-sea of crap fic mediocrity to somebody else, enough so, that they took time out of their life to bother.
no subject
You are also missing my point. My point wasn't that you shouldn't give concrit if you want to. My point was that it's not cowardly to choose not. It's still not cowardly to chose not to comment on Paris Hilton hypothetical ugly outfit.
Not every site has the option of turning off feedback.
Just because you think of it as a complement doesn't mean everyone else does or that they are even required to do so. I don't agree with people getting upset when they receive concrit, but if they don't want it, they don't want it and not everyone wants to waist their time giving someone something they might not want.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-01-10 04:03 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-01-10 04:02 am (UTC)(link)